Vukcevic sets a Christmas puzzle

Posted: December 26, 2010 by tallbloke in solar system dynamics

Vuk has made an enigmatic comment on WUWT’s Christmas holiday open thread:

vukcevic says:

My friend Barry impressed by my graphing skills, send me some data to plot against CETs. Since it is open thread I thought the RESULT could be of interest to some but not all of the contributors.
Merry Christmas.

and further down the thread

For the line blue there is an easy clue; the name of the author in the bottom right corner. I applied a bit of arithmetic to Barry C Enter’s data.

Here’s the graph:
Vukcevic barycentre graph vs CET

My first post on this blog also looked at a curve I derived from ephemeris data relating to the motion of the sun with respect to the solar system centre of mass (the SSB or barycenter) and compared it to global surface temperature and changes in Earth’s length of day (LOD).

So come on Vuk, how have you derived the blue curve from the ephemeris?

Inquiring minds want to know! 🙂

Comments
  1. Geoff Sharp says:

    It is indeed strange, the force with no name, I can see a Jupiter/Saturn timing perhaps??

  2. tallbloke says:

    Hi Geoff, and Merry Christmas to you.
    The cycle here seems to be around 45 years plus or minus 5 years or so. That doesn’t compute with anything I’ve been working on. Hopefully Vuk will drop by to tell us more…

  3. Geoff Sharp says:

    Hi Rog, I was thinking of a Saturn cycle with a Jupiter bent, as Vuk is so big on Jupiter. But who knows, the high point at 1740 should give us a clue.

    Merry xmas Rog.

  4. Tenuc says:

    Knowing Vuk, I wonder if Earth’s magnetic field isn’t part of the answer?

    It is interesting that the good correlation breaks down just before 1900. Perhaps this could be linked to adjustments made in 1877 to the original Manley monthly series. or the effect of UHI which destroys the previously good correlation???

  5. @Tenuc says:
    December 26, 2010 at 8:30 pm
    I see the “five finger” arrangement found by Landscheidt….It is Jupiter/Saturn electromagnetic fields intertwining with the Sun´s field.
    Earth´s electric/magnetic field is just the one suffering the consequences…
    BTW: Why does the earth spin?

  6. P.G. Sharrow says:

    Adolfo Giurfa says:
    December 27, 2010 at 12:12 am “BTW: Why does the earth spin?”

    Maybe because it is too lazy to stop! 🙂 After all, once set in motion it takes energy to stop it. Kind of like it is a lot easier to smile then to frown. 😀

    50 years ago my physics teacher would say that ” god made it that way, and that is the way it is.”

    Have a Happy New Year. My friend. pg

  7. P.G. Sharrow says:
    December 27, 2010 at 1:10 am
    i will disassemble my blender to see how it does it 🙂

  8. tallbloke says:

    Ulric comments on WUWT:

    Submitted on 2010/12/28 at 6:41 am
    vukcevic says:
    December 28, 2010 at 5:21 am

    “However there are 40-50 years long undulations, which appear to have some similarity with the simple orbital resonance cycle of the Jovian planets.”
    http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/CETpr.htm

    44.75yrs. It was mapped out long ago on the 7 circuit labyrinth.

  9. vukcevic says:

    Ulric Lyons says:
    December 28, 2010 at 6:41 am
    In your post few months ago you said:
    ….found worldwide, is a rudimentary rain calendar, mapping the heliocentric cycles of Jupiter, Mars, Earth and Venus over 44.75yrs.
    Interesting, but this one is based only on JSU.
    Ulric are you astrologer or something ?
    From my Excel file I took peaks for the resonance cycles and the temperature and put them on the graph just to show that there is no 60 year cycle.
    Prompted by your comment Iwas tempted to prove your number wrong.
    Here is how the numbers from my graph ad:
    http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/CETpr.htm

    resonance temperature
    1998 difference—– 2003 difference
    1954 44 —————- 1948 55
    1906 48 —————- 1916 32
    1860 46 —————- 1871 45
    1816 44 —————- 1830 41
    1770 46 —————- 1778 52
    1729 41 —————- 1734 44
    total 269—————- total 269
    average—-44.83333333 average—-44.83333333
    It looks like as you and your long gone astro friends may have been right but for wrong reason.
    I am astonished.
    Ulric thanks for the post, I hope someone has saved the graph with numbers so it can be proven that there was no fixing of the numbers.

  10. Ulric are you astrologer or something ?
    Since the plasma universe conception there is a justification to be a modern astrologer. 🙂
    BTW: Don’t forget earth’s sink : The Moon.

  11. tallbloke says:

    Ulric Lyons
    ulriclyons@gmail.com
    178.102.225.203
    Submitted on 2010/12/28 at 10:55 am
    @vukcevic says:
    December 28, 2010 at 8:15 am

    In fact two of the JSU synodic periods in 48.333yrs are at 2.25 and 3.25, so cannot be producing this period.

  12. Ulric Lyons says:

    Ooops sorry about the typo on WUWT (44.8333 not 48.333 !)

  13. Ulric Lyons says:

    The only single synodic period close to this figure is S/U. Conjuncts are at 1715, 1761, 1806, 1851, 1942 and 1988.

  14. tallbloke says:

    Ulric,
    Thanks for dropping by. Tell us more about the “7 circuit labyrinth” please.

  15. vukcevic says:

    Ulric
    I was surprised by closeness of figure you quoted 44.75 and what I came up with 44.83
    since I used rounded year numbers, and even more by the resonance and temperature average periods. My calculations are based on geo-centric reference, they are not heliocentric conjunctions, or based on conjunctions.
    Numbers you quote ad to 45 year period, your inner planets 44.75 (whichever way it was calculated) and my Jovian planets to 44.83. It appears whole of the solar system is in very close resonance.

  16. tallbloke says:

    “It appears whole of the solar system is in very close resonance.”

    Yes, this is what I was getting at with my response on Judy Curry’s blog earlier. Exciting isn’t it?

    44.75 x 4 = 179 = Outer planet return period
    44.75 x 2 = Gleissberg cycle?

  17. Ulric Lyons says:

    Well, the 6th string on an electric guitar will produce more voltage from the pickup than the 1st string as it is fatter. More important is how close the strings are to the pickup. Such that the Sun is very sensitive to the inner planets including Mars and even Ceres. (Did J. H. Nelson take in account Mars ?)
    The Ancients, in correlating the planet positions with weather, would have observed synodic periods of Mercury Venus Mars Jupiter and Saturn, and when these periods met up or harmonised.
    To the labyrinth, every 4th Earth/Venus synodic period brings both back closely to the same position in relation to Mars, (one circuit), do this 7 times and all three will return close to the same relative position to Jupiter (seven circuits), at 28 Venus synods. Its a bit basic and needs recalibrating now and then, but hey, its better than Hadley at very long range.

  18. tallbloke says:

    Ulric, thanks.
    So, 4 x EV = ~6.4 years = EVM return
    7 x 6.4 = 44.8 years = EVMJ return

    Sweet!

    And even sweeter that Vuk’s ‘Earth wobble’ period matches too. Geocentric is the way to go in some respects. Especially if the inner planets are involved in an electromagnetic interaction.

  19. Ulric Lyons says:

    Anyway, if over 1,000yrs ago, this bloke measured the Sidereal year (not tropical, meaning he knew about heliocentric) to within 2 seconds :
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thabit_ibn_Qurra
    I`m sure a few thousand before that someone would have easily worked out the 179 year cycle of Venus Earth Mars Jupiter and Saturn..

    “Cainan died when Noah was 179 years old” !

  20. tallbloke says:

    And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth,…. When it began, for he was in his six hundred and first year when it ended, Genesis 8:13

    Any ideas on that Ulric?

  21. Ulric Lyons says:

    I was a bit unsure, but at this hour, with help from your interest, and the wonders of the internet, I think I have something new. Look at the table on this link labeled “According to the National Library of Norway:”
    http://www.earth-history.com/_toplevel/Generation.htm
    It all seems to be based on the same counts as ancient calender counts like 144,000 days or the Sumerian 60 x 60 x 60 day system. Its a load of astronomy, not the ages of people !

  22. tallbloke says:

    Looks interesting. Lots of astronomy buried in the bible. Seen Zeitgeist?

    So we need to start looking at the ratios of those periods?

    Not tonight Josephine!

    [waves glass of vintage port at Ulric]

  23. Ulric Lyons says:

    And again…
    “The total ages of the Antediluvians comes to 8575, which is 7 x 1225”

    1225, that is an interesting triangular number, and 3 x 8575 is 25725. I make precession 25774yrs.

  24. Ulric Lyons says:

    @tallbloke says:
    December 28, 2010 at 10:54 pm
    “Geocentric is the way to go in some respects.”

    I can`t see that affecting the Sun.

  25. tallbloke says:

    Sure, but we need to check direct effects on the earth as a control against proportional effects we ascribe to planets on the sun.

  26. tallbloke says:

    “The total ages of the Antediluvians comes to 8575, which is 7 x 1225″

    1225, that is an interesting triangular number, and 3 x 8575 is 25725. I make precession 25774yrs.

    Oh no. I’m not going to have to dig out my big fat book on Gematria am I. 😦

    😉

  27. P.G. Sharrow says:

    Astronomy and the Book of Genesis 🙂

    Astronomy represents many thousands of years of observed fact. A time clock of events that happen over and over again.

    Genesis also contains descriptions of creation and geophysics that are not all that wrong. Abraham was a wealthy educated Chaldean that took his family, servants and went out into the wilderness to escape the destruction of Chaldea and founded the semitic lines. The Book of Genesis is Chaldean.

    Archeologists have used the bible for bread crumbs to discovery. Why not other fields?

    Ancient knowledge may be obscure but can provide clues to true understanding.

    “Where physics meets psychics you will see the face of God.” pg