P.G. Sharrow: Seismic analysis of Wolff and Patrone

Posted: January 21, 2011 by tallbloke in solar system dynamics

First results in from analysis of the Wolff and Patrone paper. P.G. Sharrow has made a seismic analysis showing the likely area of cell overturn releasing potential energy. Top work P.G.! I will be able to plug this value in to the model I’m building with Rob Prince.

Image created by P.G. Sharrow

Image created by P.G. Sharrow

PG explains:

The above is my reconstruction from the Wolff – Patrone paper: figure 6

The left gauge is seismic speed and the bottom is solar radius.

The red line represents the helioseismic sound speed relative to that would be expected in a uniform standard model sun. The shading is to give a better visual of the density changes as the wave travel speed up or down from the norm. Faster in more dense levels and slower in levels less dense.

In the paper the region of 0,65r to 0.72r seems to be the level that would have the most PE for cell overturn and positive contribution to solar output due to barycenter effects. This would seem to me to be a positive indication of “conveyer belt” motive power.

Once again the solar body is postulated to have little or no effect from solar system center of gravity as it is a body in free fall. They still neglect inertia although they do take into effect the suns’ rotational energies.

Wolff & Patrone call for the fusion fuel to be better supplied to the solar furnace due to the lower level cell mixing in the 0.16r to 0.3r layer. I agree that that is the most likely area for the fusion forge to be located but the mixing in that level from “cells” is, by their own admission very small.

The 0.72r to surface looks to be the solar face that we are used to. 😎 I am glad to see what is behind the shades. The real surface may be at the 0.72r line.

[Update] P.G. has sent me an update to his post:

Page 2 Further evaluation of figure 6 helioseismic data.

The stepped changes in speed relative to the expected straight line speed changes due to depth compression of hydrogen gives us a better insight of the interior conditions of the sun. The basic premiss is that the more solid levels transmits waves faster then less solid levels. What conditions would result in changes in solidity? The possibilities are; liquid to solid, vapor to liquid, turbulence and energy vibration levels.

 

Accelerations in the 0.0r to 0.1r appear to dictate a very solid core. The deep slow down and then increase to the 0.27r level looks to be a region of change phase as upper liquid crystallizes to the lower solid level. The gradual freezing would cause speed changes because of liquid to solid interface interference, faster in clean ridged liquid, slower in mix and faster in clean solid. That step at 0.28r reminds me of the thermal step of heat of fusion in an otherwise smooth sine up to 0.45r and then down to 0.62. though it may well be the level of fusion of free hydrogen into captured neutrons. The level 0.52r to 0.62 would be the area of fission as unbound neutrons convert back to hydrogen to add energy to the “conveyer belt” or “cells”of the the upper 0.62 to 0.72liquid level. The speed changes in this top layer of liquid hydrogen is due to turbulence of the horizontal flows. The straight line of the 0.72r to 1.0r is the compressed hydrogen gas sun, that we all know too well, and is a bit faster then the standard model. This is most likely the result of the averaging of the helioseismic data of the entire sun.


Comments
  1. tallbloke says:

    Interesting to compare PG’s result with the helioseismology research here:
    http://www.astro.yale.edu/basu/research.html

    For example:
    helioseismology

    Some of Sarbani Basu’s other research could be useful too, especially the plots of the changes in rotation rate with solar activity at various latitudes.

  2. P.G. Sharrow says:

    This might be an interesting read for further helioseismic view point.
    http://gong.nso.edu/info/helioseismology.html

    Aldofo: I think you will love this. pg

  3. Tenuc says:

    Great graph PG – interesting things tend to happen at boundaries!

    Perhaps the conjectured increase in PE expresses itself as increased turbulence at a boundary layer. This in turn could change the dynamics of the system to increase MEP, which we observe as increase in surface solar activity. Once the extra energy has been dissipated the turbulence would die back down and we would observe a decrease in solar activity, such as the one at the moment.

    Could this be the solar thermostat???

  4. tallbloke says:

    Good thinking Tenuc. Early days with this but I have high hopes for a real ‘Newtonian’ mechanism.

  5. P.G. Sharrow says:
    January 21, 2011 at 5:59 pm
    Thanks for your link….and you will like this one:

    image-650.jpg


    A very simple relation.

  6. tallbloke says:
    January 21, 2011 at 6:23 pm
    Being myself a native of Sagittarius I can’t help saying a joke: Newtonian….,Do you mean related to that guy who saw the apple falling down and forgot the apple-tree growing up?

  7. Tenuc says:

    tallbloke says:
    January 21, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    “…Early days with this but I have high hopes for a real ‘Newtonian’ mechanism.”

    I’m sure dynamics is part of the answer, although perhaps more progress will be made using a ‘Mathisonian’ approach. At least his theory includes the effects of the charge field (and related EM effects) – also explains many of the problems associated with the classical approach celestial mechanics, which seems to fail at all scales.

    Building houses on shaky foundations is never a good idea!

  8. tallbloke says:

    Sure, and I like the Mathis approach. It would still delight me to go back to Leif and show him an old school set of equations to explain the “Barycentric Nonsense”(tm). 🙂

  9. vukcevic says:

    And you can listen to what it may sound like:
    http://soi.stanford.edu/results/sounds.html
    this one is particularly dissonant
    http://soi.stanford.edu/results/thr_modes_1_0_1_2_30s.au

  10. P.G. Sharrow says:

    Further reading of Wolff;

    Click to access 0004-637X_701_1_686.pdf

    this pdf gives further insight of Wolff thinking on solar construction and outputs. Two points seem to be that the solar forge is in the 0.1r to 0.3r region and the 0.6r to 0.7 region is caused by horizontal counter flows. Wolff seems to think that the forge consumes mostly He and C and that the barycenter has some effect on the energy movement up to the surface. Also that the deep interior operates at a lower temperature then the standard model dictates, thus a lower neutrino output. pg

  11. tallbloke says:

    Thanks P.G., I’ll make some time for that. I’m back to work after my week away in Lisbon, so I’ll be scarce while I catch up.

  12. P.G. Sharrow says:

    🙂 It is time to start gardening and outside work.

  13. tallbloke says:

    Tell me about it! 🙂