Emerging sunspots

Posted: August 19, 2011 by tchannon in Solar physics
emerging-ss

Figure 1

A new paper (18th Aug) has been published in Science. “Detection of Emerging Sunspot Regions in the Solar Interior” — Stathis Ilonidis*, Junwei Zhao, Alexander Kosovichev from Stanford

Abstract

Much more information is in the Stanford press release

Comments
  1. cementafriend says:
    August 19, 2011 at 2:25 am

    The paper is mentioned here
    http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/46914

  2. tchannon says:
    August 19, 2011 at 2:43 am

    Nice one thanks.

  3. Tenucthere are few lessons to be learned from our forebears says:
    August 19, 2011 at 7:09 am

    Thanks for posting the info, Tim. This research looks to have the potential to improve our understanding of how sun spots form and, perhaps, improve space weather forecasting.

    It has always intrigued me that there are similarities between sun spots and tornadoes when seen from above…

    Here is a publication by Charles Chandler which posits that tornadoes are both a thermodynamic and electromagnetic phenomenon…

    http://charles-chandler.org/Geophysics/Tornadoes%20Main.php#id_20

    As above, so below?

  4. adolfogiurfa says:
    August 20, 2011 at 1:15 am

    @Tenuc….etc. We have to send up there some tornado chasers, pebbles´universe followers, to measure wind velocity and temperature in them only. BTW: Could it be possible, building a convenient and wide array of lighting rods to discharge a tornado?
    Our humble earth has its own undeveloped, third worldly “terra-corona”, the thermosphere, charged by elves and sprites. (No smile face here, because this is real)
    http://www.giurfa.com/artrees.html

  5. P.G. Sharrow says:
    August 20, 2011 at 11:40 am

    One should be careful about “cause & effect”. Moving large amounts of matter is also moving large amounts of charge. Large amounts of charge in motion yields large magnetic field effects. This can also be in reverse. Which chicken laid which egg. A magnetic field change can cause heating due to atmospheric compression, which causes tornadic conditions that yield magnetic spikes from lightning action. A large scale small change yields a very strong small event. pg

  6. Brian Hall says:
    August 21, 2011 at 1:22 am

    Speaking of electric fields, why is there lightning?
    What do you think of this hypothesis? —
    Ordered water.

  7. adolfogiurfa says:
    August 21, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    @Brian: Which is first, the chicken or the egg?. We should ask ourselves of what size and composition is the Solar anode, very far down there below that corona. BTW: If you could be at the Corona which has a density of 1×10−12 kg/m3 you would freeze for sure.

  8. P.G. Sharrow says:
    August 21, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    A cascade failure of the dielectric.

    Dry air can withstand about 300 volts per meter. Any action that will build potential can push voltage over the edge of the dielectric materials ability to resist current flow.

    Gravity acting on air will create a potential of 300 volts in still, dry air by warping the position of the atomic nucleus with in its electron shell. Wind currents can lift huge amounts of charged air away from the ground, greatly increasing the charge difference.

    Water is not needed. Water can increase the likely hood of cascade failure of the dielectric. pg

  9. Tenuc says:
    August 21, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    P.G. Sharrow says:
    August 21, 2011 at 4:20 pm
    “…Water is not needed. Water can increase the likely hood of cascade failure of the dielectric. pg”

    The Boston Museum of Science houses the world’s largest air-insulated Van de Graff generator and is capable of ~2.0 MV during dry cold spells in winter, but can only manage ~1.5 MV in the humid summer months.

    The majority of thunder storms occur in humid conditions, where the dissolved minerals increase conductivity and make it easier for the current to flow. I read somewhere that humid air is a type of weakly conductive plasma.

  10. P.G. Sharrow says:
    August 22, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    The movement of electrical charge requires “charge carriers” ions that easily receive and give up charge. Pure water is a poor conductor but add other materials such as salts and free H ions (hydrogen) are created. Hydrogen is an excellent charge carrier and very mobile.

    In the sun, liquid, gas and plasma hydrogen are virtual super conductors of electrical and EMF (electro-motive force) energies. pg

  11. Gerry says:
    August 25, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    An interesting article on relationships between solar magnetic waves, the temperature of the solar corona, and solar wind speed:

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/07/29/powerful-magnetic-waves-help-make-suns-atmosphere-hotter-than-sun-itself/

  12. Sagars says:
    May 29, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    My guide asked me to verify the claims of the original paper, because 12-14s is way too much. Worked on it for a while till I quit my course but appears like they were using different focusing and averaging scheme. Here is the latest in that regard, although verification from an independent group is still awaited.
    .
    http://www.sciencemag.org/content/336/6079/296.3.full
    .
    “Ilonidis et al. (Reports, 19 August 2011, p. 993) report acoustic travel-time decreases associated with emerging sunspot regions before their appearance on the solar surface. An independent analysis using helioseismic holography does not confirm these travel-time anomalies for the four regions illustrated by Ilonidis et al. This negative finding is consistent with expectations based on current emerging flux models.”

    And the response to the comment in defense of original paper:
    .
    http://www.sciencemag.org/content/336/6079/296.4.full
    .
    “Braun claims that his analysis using helioseismic holography does not confirm the detection of emerging sunspot regions. We examine his measurement procedure and explain why his method has different sensitivity than our method. We also discuss possible physical processes that may cause the detected phase travel-time shifts.”

    Will try to find out the hit rates they are getting for this solar cycle.