Strange discrepancies in co2 measurement

Posted: September 9, 2011 by tallbloke in atmosphere, climate

The Japanese GHG measuring satellite GOSAT has been measuring GHG’s in the atmosphere since 2009

http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2009/05/20090528_ibuki_e.html

The website is here:

http://www.gosat.nies.go.jp/

The levels they are measuring for co2 seem to be a bit lower than results at Mauna Loa:

Here’s the Mauna loa reading:

and here’s GOSAT’s animated data over the last couple of years:

Strange. But there’s more to this than meets the eye. More soon.

Comments
  1. Brian Hall says:

    Ugh. Lousy way to compare. Allow the animation to be slowed and stopped, and paused between loops.

    IAC, Mona Loa is on and surrounded by active outgassing volcanic vents. It was always a bone-headed place to place a “Global Monitor”.

  2. Doug Proctor says:

    Looks biological. Overlay with sea temperatures (not anomalies).

    Several years ago it was reported that the Southern Ocean was a net source of CO2, not absorption, which the marine biologists found peculiar, as if the water was saturated. At the time I thought they were seeing biological activity. At the same time, similar time-dependent findings were reported in the English Channel vis-a-vis CO2 release. There, they concluded biological activity was responsible.

    The up/down Mauna Loa readings have always reflected biological activity in the Northern Hemisphere LANDMASSES. As anyone knows from Hawaii, the clear waters there are a sign of a biological desert – the reason that whales don’t feed when they come there to give birth is that there is nothing much to eat. And maybe there is also relatively little to eat them or their young!

    The pH of oceanic waters is quite varied, with 7.9 “normal” in the biologically active areas where there is upwelling from the ocean deeps or major surface runoff, like in Cheasapeake Bay. The CO2 activity should be similar to the pH.

    The climate debate has caused many “inconvenient” citizens to become quite knowledgeable about the world in ways that are irritating to the warmists. It is bizarre that the warmists rail that the more the average Joe learns, the more he is inclined to be a skeptic. It is not bizarre that this learning to skepticism happens, but that the warmists don’t recognize the potential problem for them is that the science is not as settled or obvious as they think.

    Biological activity also creates nuclei for cloud formation, plus wind action. Wonder what the proportion of bio-nucleated cloud particles are, and whether the positioning, strength and proportionality of upward moving air masses increases cloud cover in high bioactivity areas. A biological feedback to stabilize plant growth ……

  3. Steve Short says:

    Like many of us, I am currently avidly following the material on Roy Spencer’s site and Steve McIntyre’s site Climate Audit regarding the Spencer and Braswell versus Dessler ‘bout’ following Wolfgang Wagner’s resignation at GCL.

    The discussion about lags and phases regarding cloud forcing/feedback in relation to SST is getting particularly interesting IMHO.

    However, I strongly suspect the role of oceanic cyanobacteria (algae) in responding (blooming) according to both UV flux at the ocean surface and to SST and emitting dimethyl sulfide (DMS) as a potent nucleant (is that a word? nucleator?) of low level cloud might also be intimately involved.

    FYI, I put up an article on David Stockwell’s nice Niche Modeling site way back in April 2009 about this stuff but unfortunately all the figures have since been lost by David’s site provider (note David’s spelling mistake):

    http://landshape.org/enm/oceanic-cayanobacteria-in-the-modern-global-cycle/

    Nevertheless, I humbly suggest the text is well worth reading in relationship to both heterogeneity of global atmospheric CO2 levels (in various parts of the globe) and cyanobacterial productivity.

    BTW Doug – in areas where cyanobacteria are blooming, pH actually rise markedly above the global average pH of around 8.15 because of course they are abstracting CO2 as dissolved CO2 and bicarbonate from the water (and respiring O2).FYI I have seen pHs in excess of 9.0 in the midst of such blooms.

  4. tallbloke says:

    Thanks Steve. I’d like to repost that article here with the figures if you still have them?

  5. Martin Clark says:

    ” … Several years ago it was reported that the Southern Ocean was a net source of CO2, not absorption …” [Doug Proctor]

    Might explain why my CO2 meter indicates higher levels when I place it in front of the NE onshore winds? (Unfortunately it has no data-logging facility).
    Doesn’t always happen, but usually occurs late afternoon on hot days. Nothing between my place and the Coral Sea. Location is 19° 11′ 38″ S 146° 40′ 31″ E.
    On the other hand, the airflow is passing over the GBR, mangroves, estuary (declared fish habitat area). The latter has more than the usual amount of natural debris brewing away at the moment as a result of Cyclone Yasi. I haven’t noticed any correlation with algal blooms.

  6. little polyp says:

    Yes the current debate seems to have connected a number of potentially useful strands;

    If the phenomenon (process ?) that Spencer Dessler the blogosphere and Bart have seen is that clouds are having a -‘ve feedback for the observed data set than the idea as neatly summarised on BH that ocean evaporation increases causing cloud increase thereby decreasing IR into oceans and (h/o to DocMartyn) ” full ocean oscillation takes 5 years,Earth gets cool (pulling up cover of the water bed), heat stored in top of ocean radiated and not restored, water evaporation rate drops below average, clouds decrease below average, sunlight hitting ocean rises, ocean circulation slows, full ocean oscillation takes 5 years”

    the question this mathematical ignoramus has was whether that the data set used was or could be related to ENSO effects. If it was that might then plausibly correlate with biological influences the as either intimate or 2nd/3rd order effects (for CO2 fluxes, CCN’s) ie the thermostats thermostat which would explain such temperature constancy to the geological record and maybe Salby’s recent paper.

    And as a glimpse of just how complicated natural systems can be, that might make more sense than a relatively simplistic anthropomorphic view of the world.

    Does it also suggest that the best place to look is in any cyclicity in the bicarbonate record outside of annual changes.?

  7. tallbloke says:

    LP: Welcome. A couple of my replies on the Bill Illis thread discuss ocean surface biology too.

  8. Doug Proctor says: September 9, 2011 at 3:17 pm

    Several years ago it was reported that the Southern Ocean was a net source of CO2, not absorption

    Oceans are in dynamic equilibriums re CO2, with outgassing in equatorial regions (where the thermohaline rises) balancing absorption in polar regions (where the thermohaline current sinks) – 800 year cycle or so, explaining 800 year lag of CO2 in paleo ice records. “Net source” is bunk. The oceans have oodles more CO2 in them than the atmosphere begins to touch; and the annual fluxes are huge.

    Click my name for my general primer with sections on CO2; this page deals with CO2 alone

    Floor Anthoni is the oceans expert.

  9. Meant to say, now that the sea level rise is levelling off, I want to keep a sharp lookout on CO2 levels. I don’t trust MLO not to be tempted to fudge results for a while.

    Therefore it would be nice to have an apples-to-apples comparison here.

  10. P.G. Sharrow says:

    That great “fume scrubber of Earth” the oceans will become much more effective as it cools, both in removal of CO2 from the atmosphere and precipitation of carbonates to the sea floor. I don’t think you will have to wait 800 more years to see the results as the last serious cold snap was about 800 years ago and that cold stripped water is now beginning to up well . pg