Andrea Rossi: E-Cat megawatt cold fusion device passes the test

Posted: November 17, 2011 by tallbloke in Energy, Nuclear power

Wired magazine’s UK website is carrying a cautiously optimistic story regarding the cold fusion  Low Energy Nuclear Reaction (LENR) process Italian Engineer Andrea Rossi claims to have successfully developed.

Personally, I have a good feeling about this process, which I blogged back in May, but that’s all it is. We have too little data to be able to judge at this point.

Andrea Rossi

Rossi says a domestic version rated at a few kilowatts is at least a year away. He is also working on adapting the E-Cat so its heat output can converted to electricity, but this will require higher working temperatures and will take two years or more.

Allan Sterling of PESN reports today that Andrea Rossi has entered an agreement with National Instruments on November 10th and that NI will be creating the controls to monitor and regulate this process.

Andrea Rossi told PESN that their stipulation for the agreement is that all the instrumentation for the E-Cat plants have “by National Instruments” and logo on the instrumentation panels.

.

Rossi’s process which involves finely divided powdered Nickel and an undisclosed catalyst  combined in a controlled environment with pressurized hydrogen, with initial power input, was observed to generate 470KW over the course of several hours in the test conducted on Oct 28 this year.

Andrea Rossi Test Rig

According to ecat.com :  a site owned by Rossi:

“The 2009 patent application applied for by Andrea Rossi  claims a method and apparatus for carrying out nickel and hydrogen exothermal reactions with production of copper.  Although the patent cites previous works on cold fusion, Rossi also asserted that it is not cold fusion, but rather LENR, Low-Energy Nuclear Reaction system.  Here, the hydrogen is heated at a given temperature with a simple resistor. When the ignition temperature is reached, the energy production process starts where the hydrogen atoms penetrate into the nickel and transform it into copper.”

Time will tell if this is for real. I hope so.

Comments
  1. tallbloke says:

    On a personal note I’d just like to say a big public thankyou! to Tim Channon who has been keeping this blog going in my absence. I’m trying to write a longer piece but it’s hard going, and I wanted to get myself back in the groove on the talkshop.

    Hello again everyone!

  2. P.G. Sharrow says:

    Welcome back. Tim has been doing a good job keeping this blog moving along, as well as keeping the peace. As fall has fallen and gardening is about done you now have less excuse for non participation. 😉

    Rossi’s device seems to be working well enough but is very crude. Kind of like a crystal radio is the solid state beginning of our modern solid state electronics. Time will tell if modern physics can come up with a valid explanation of the science involved. There are several papers on Rossi’s blog site that propose to explain LENR reactions. None as yet on his views.

    Seems like the more we think we know, the more we find we don’t know.

    “May you live in interesting times.” 😎 Most interesting times we live in. pg

  3. tallbloke says:

    Thanks PG. I quite like living in interesting times. Uncertainty entices me. 8)

  4. adolfogiurfa says:

    “Magister Ludi” is back!. Welcome!, in the meantime we´ve been trying to reach the “critical mass” …
    About Andrea Rossi´s “cold fusion”, for me it´s just chemical exothermic energy (though ALL energies are the same-the “force” is one and only-) closely related to:

    Blacklight Energy:
    http://www.blacklightpower.com/index.shtml
    Common reaction between NaOH and Aluminum:
    sodium aluminate
    Al + NaOH + H2O = NaAlO2 + 3H (1)
    But they obtain Sodium Hydride, that would be like this:
    sodium hydride
    2Al + NaOH + 2H2O= NaH + Al2O3 + 3H (1a)
    and, to keep the reaction reach its next step, there must be a reduction reaction:
    Al2O3 + 6H = Al + 3H2O (2)
    Which, in turn, it is produced by decomposing H2O with electricity.
    This process uses as catalyst “Raney Nickel” Raney nickel ( /ˈreɪniː ˈnɪkəl/) is a solid catalyst composed of fine grains of a nickel-aluminium alloy, used in many industrial processes. It was developed in 1926 by American]] engineer Murray Raney[1] as an alternative catalyst for the hydrogenation of vegetable oils in industrial processes.
    A.Rossi says he uses also nickel…..

  5. adolfogiurfa says:

    BTW: A super-high surface copper catalyst (made by your friend):

  6. tchannon says:

    Ah, vapourware, told you there was a will-o-the-wisp, he’s back. 🙂

    Good timing, not been feeling too good and bogged on other things. I was toying with the idea of an open thread on whatever the cold stuff is. No need now.

  7. […] more: Andrea Rossi: E-Cat megawatt cold fusion device passes the test … Tagged with: cautiously-optimistic • Cold • fusion-process • good-feeling • […]

  8. tchannon says:

    Quite so.

    As a process it is not very useful commercially: nickel is a limited mineral involving intensive production processes and whilst copper is also limited the process primarily shows things can be done. We hope.

    Not sure there are many candidate feedstocks.

    Hydrogen under pressure? Forget domestic usage.

  9. P.G. Sharrow says:

    @adolfogiurfa says:
    November 18, 2011 at 12:34 am :BTW: A super-high surface copper catalyst (made by your friend):

    I suppose you also know how to enrich nickel toward the heavier isotopes 😉 pg

  10. tallbloke says:

    Well, Adolpho knows more about chemistry than I do, but 470Kw for several hours is one helluva exothermic reaction isn’t it?

    One of the things about the Rossi E-Cat story which intrigues me is that he has demo’ed the process to some quite eminent people who have come away impressed by what they’ve seen.

    “Another ECAT test was done In March 29, 2011 by two renowned Swedish physicists. They were Hanno Essén, an associate professor of theoretical physics and a lecturer at the Swedish Royal Institute of Technology and former chairman of the Swedish Skeptics Society and Sven Kullander, Professor Emeritus of High Energy Physics at Uppsala University. He is also chairman of the Royal Swedish Academy of Science’s Energy Committee.

    They participated as observers in a test of a smaller version of the Energy Catalyzer. This test ran for six hours with a power output estimated at 4.4 kW. Total energy produced was about 25 kWh. Essen and Kullander later reported that any chemical process should be ruled out for producing 25 kWh from whatever is in a 50 cubic centimeter container. The only alternative explanation they can give is that there is some kind of a nuclear process that gives rise to the measured energy production.”

    Somehow I can’t see these Swedes voluntarily joining in an Italian’s scam.

  11. tallbloke says:

    tchannon says:
    November 18, 2011 at 12:37 am
    Ah, vapourware, told you there was a will-o-the-wisp, he’s back.

    Good timing, not been feeling too good and bogged on other things. I was toying with the idea of an open thread on whatever the cold stuff is. No need now.

    Take a well earned break Tim and thanks again for covering my back while I’ve been away.
    We don’t know exactly what the cold stuff is, but it’s not high pressure hydrogen looking at the equipment, so domestic may be possible. Politically though, I expect the legislators will find some excuse to prevent people having their own personal E-Cats… probably on health and safety grounds.

  12. M.A.Vukcevic says:

    Welcome back TB

  13. M.A.Vukcevic says:

    Turning nickel into copper.
    No idea what is going there, but since price of nickel is about six times that of copper, I can’t see much profit in it.
    How about ‘cold fission’, turning copper into nickel, and I am ready to invest some money (sarc off).

  14. P.G. Sharrow says:

    The thing produces enough radiation to require about 1/2 inch ( 11mm) of lead shielding during operation as well as about the same amount of boron. Mostly xrays. After operation, the cool device, when opened, has less then normal back ground radiation. pg

  15. tallbloke says:

    Vuk, as Pilate said to Jesus:

    “Prove to me that you’re divine
    Turn my water into wine”

    I’d settle for a cheap way to run my central heating, with the price of gas as it is… 🙂

    PG:
    “the cool device, when opened, has less then normal back ground radiation.”

    Curious don’t you think? Why would that be?

  16. M.A.Vukcevic says:

    Press conference

  17. Welcome back Rog.
    OT
    You lost the big match ….
    Leif Vs Nicola.
    Now I know …the Straw-man.

    Very funny !

    🙂

  18. adolfogiurfa says:

    @Tallbloke: As I said it´s energy, Exothermic energy is that which comes out from reactions among molecules, however there are intermediate reactions, as that for the formation of also intermediate products, as hydrine, used by “Blacklight energy”. Thus let´s not be confused by words.
    If dealing with principles we can clarify to ourselves, perhaps philosophically, the behaviour of the manifestation of energy: If we rub a plastic stick with a cloth and we near it to a Leyden jar, it will discharge its energy: a current!, from static energy to a moving energy. Now, if we consider the “force” to be equal to one=1, this shows that 1 goes there where a Void is needed to be filled (the condenser). Now, if we look closer, we could even photograph how develops that “current”, following a precise law: in the first instant we have a current line and…at a square angle a magnetic field, a triangle of forces….then, next, a relation, a ratio between 2:3 =0,666; all this manifestation goes on following the two forces: one from sin y= 0 to 1, the other from cos y= 1 to 0.
    So when two reactants (the two forces in a chemical reaction) react to achieve a product, the closest to neutrality, to equilibrium (btw: perfect equilibrium, neutrality, it´s impossible) to pH=7.
    Here we observe that when near equilibrium energy becomes a “product”: what we call (one more name!) “mass”.(It is interesting to ponder here that when reaching neutrality complexity increases, as in polymerization-peptization-).
    In the present case we see, in Rossi´s process as in “Blacklight energy” process a similitude, where using “intermediate” states, intermediate reactions, where smaller entities participate (the process happening within atoms), It seems that Rossi´s process does not use the hydrine reaction so making Nickel transmute into Copper. Both release intra-atomic energy, as that released when rubbing a plastic stick with a cloth….

  19. adolfogiurfa says:

    Rossi apparatus uses hydrogen making it react with Nickel as to form Nickel hydride but not having any other reactants, as in “Blacklight energy”, it uses part of the energy of it and, afterwards, what is left is Copper. (As Vuk just said: I can’t see much profit in it). BE utilizes water´s hydrogen as “fuel”. Both are a step forward in chemistry: “atomic chemistry”, which btw would explain, in a different way, what we have called “atomic energy”. However if we manage to free ourselves of that heavy dictionary of words which we use to define phenomena, we will be able to know the basic and universal laws behind. It´s my humble and layman opinion.

  20. tallbloke says:

    Hi Michele and thanks,
    I dropped a comment at the bottom of that thread this morning…
    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/10/aurora-borealis-and-surface-temperature-cycles-linked/#comment-800648

  21. P.G. Sharrow says:

    @tallbloke says:
    November 18, 2011 at 11:10 am

    short answer;
    Nuclear energy is the result of neutron decay. The Rossi device creates neutrons from hydrogen, squeezes them into the nickle where they change back to proton/electron. This changes the slightly radioactive heavy nickle to stable copper. The energy/emf event xrays are captured along with lose, slow, neutrons in the boron and lead layers to yield thermal energy. pg

  22. adolfogiurfa says:

    @P.G. Neutron=Little hydrogen. Dimension=Size=Wavelength. The higher the energy the smaller the wavelength the higher its frequency, the wider its “vibration”, the higher its “eccentricity”. A perfect circle=neutrality.

  23. tallbloke says:

    I took a few screenshots of the diagrams from the longer video:

    Here’s the video:

  24. adolfogiurfa says:

    I would heat up that nickel nanopowder with microwaves.

  25. P.G. Sharrow says:

    @Adolfo; The proton demonstrates interesting tricks that seem to to indicate vibrational harmonics in the formation of the electron shell.

    We have the neutron, a positive field proton masked by a close negative field electron shell that yields an almost neutral surface charge.

    We have a small elemental hydrogen that takes part in molecules.

    We have a larger atomic hydrogen that has too much energy ( vibrations) to bind with other atoms.

    And we have the naked proton, too energetic to demonstrate an electron shell.

    It would seem to me that your vibrational creation of harmonics create the appearance of electron charge shells.

    An important ingredient of the Rossi fuel element is copper to facilitate emf movement as well as to sinter the nickle powder. About 25% is my guess. pg

  26. adolfogiurfa says:

    @P.G.: Dear P.G. You know “As above so below”. As for your vibrational creation of harmonics, it´s not mine of course, it´s the known “vibrational law” which musicians call “the octave”.
    Your guess is right…and my suspicion about Rossi´s machine is that it is a “paste & copy” from “Black-light energy”(which is patented, as far as I know) and which includes those “secret” catalyzers as Na and Al: In other words Raney Nickel and caustic soda.(See reactions above).
    It would be interesting if some of the Black-light energy people could opine in this post.
    @Tallbloke: Interesting video…and funny too, as it shows academics trying to define if it really works according to their description of the atomic world: Just don´t care about it, if it works then it works and it doesn´t matter if it follows my nanny theories! 🙂

  27. Gray says:

    http://www.wickedlocal.com/gloucester/news/x1514729230/Tarr-hosts-visit-as-cold-fusion-inventor-comes-to-Boston#ixzz1enLnpQEf

    Responding to an invitation from Senate Minority Leader Bruce Tarr (R-Gloucester), the Italian scientist who claims to have developed the world’s first nuclear cold fusion reactor was to visit the State House today to explore the prospects of developing the device and producing it in Massachusetts.

  28. Gray says:

    A minor update:

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/12/rossis-goal-for-2012-1-million-units-kill-competition/

    I’m sure that Rossi’s competitors will be thinking along similar lines — and the beauty of competition is that it spurs ingenuity and pushes prices lower so the consumer is the ultimate beneficiary. At this point it is hard to imagine 1 million working E-Cat devices in the marketplace within twelve months, especially with patent approval and safety certification required — a huge network of R&D, manufacturing, distribution and support would need to be in place in order for that to happen. Perhaps that is exactly what Rossi has been organizing.

  29. P.G. Sharrow says:

    It appears to me that Rossi plans to start placing consumer units in 12+ months and be up to 1 million units rate in 2 years. He now has a US partner that has the ability to produce and service that rate level. Safety certification may well be a slow down cause. This thing is fairly small, 40cm cube for the 10kw size and not complex, so a million units is doable. We shall see as I am early on the list for the first 10,000 units. Need to save my up pennies. $5 to $6 thousand needed, might make a good greenhouse heater. I am very techno able so I will report on my blogg. pg

  30. Gray says:

    They’re going to be expensive tomatoes…

  31. adolfogiurfa says:

    @P.G.Sharrow: Was it not that energy is free? :
    http://www.giurfa.com/tesla_patent.pdf
    You are good at this so build one, though it will need some hardware to regulate its output.

  32. p.g.sharrow says:

    Actually the Hobbit House, at my blog, is designed for such experiments, The top roof is a copper covered pyramid over a concrete and steel bottom with wood only in between. A pyramid shape is a broad band EMF antennae and is 10ft over the ground plane. Should be enough to test the concept. My high voltage condenser will withstand over 40,000 volts and I have created 2- 40,000 volt diodes, almost enough parts to replicate any Tesla concept and expand on them as I have better tools then he had available to work with. Tesla hired craftsmen to build the things he needed using the best available at that time, 1886 to 1915. High energy electronics before there was any electronic equipment! totally amazing! pg

  33. adolfogiurfa says:

    @P.G: Great! Do you know why condensers save energy?….it happens that its metallic parts reflect electric current waves, as in a thermos bottle, where it is possible to condense IR light (heat): a light capacitor! (thanks to its mirror interior)….and relate this with the hydraulic ramp pump, where water is condensed in a pressure vessel as to achieve a higher pressure (that´s a watery version of a laser)….quite a remarkable analogy with the law of the musical octave, where there are two “gaps”(those two check valves in the hydraulic ramp pump)…Nice, isn´t it?

  34. tchannon says:

    According to The Register

    “Australian entrepreneur, philanthropist, skeptic, aviator and eccentric Dick Smith has offered $AU200,000 for proof that the Andrea Rossi “energy catalyzer” actually works.”

    And

    “Smith has offered to send along Australian Skeptics member, engineer and debunker Ian Bryce to the meeting to assess Rossi’s claims,”

    Yep, this might catalyse popcorn consumption.

    On looking up Bryce can’t make it up appears

    “complete with a satellite connection to god!”

  35. P.G. Sharrow says:

    Great find Tim, I always wanted to be an eccentric! 😎

    “An eccentric is a nut case with money”

    I’m only a poor nut case. pg

    Em, I wonder if he would give the money to Rossi when the E-Cat becomes a commercial product.

  36. Zeke says:

    That insufferable Aussie can just write the check out to Rossi right now.

  37. Zeke says:

    In a demonstration video, Rossi shows that the internal temps are at 127C (assumed C). Does that reflect only the water temp? What temps are the actual energetic reactions measuring?

  38. tchannon says:

    http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/TRANSPORT/gyrocars/schilovs.htm

    Wolseley are a defunct English manufacturer, one of thousands which used to exist. Nothing wrong with the gyro idea other than overcomplication. To me the important thing is definite evidence things can be done. All this is niche so whilst I could dig out lots of engineering interest, not really something for a WP blog.
    http://www.wolseleyworld.com/oddities-gyrocar.php

  39. P.G. Sharrow says:

    @Zeke; Rossi claims up to 450C operating temperature of this next generation of reactors. The only limit is a physical one of the working temperature limits of the components. He says that 3 units in series is the practical arrangement for that high temperature output. pg

  40. Zeke says:

    @PG Thank you, so that is 842F, but can be much lower. Very interesting.

    “Fakta The E-cat:

    The ‘energy catalyzer’ is loaded with nickel powder and a number of secret catalysts and is pressurized with hydrogen gas. Excess heat is possibly produced via an unknown nuclear reaction, involving nickel and hydrogen.”

    I am going to hypothesize that the catalysts are Au and Ag.

    And thanks @Tim for the links on the gyrocar.

  41. adolfogiurfa says:

    @Zeke: The exothermic reaction between aluminum in Raney Nickel and Sodium Hydroxide reaches 92ºC (197.6ºF). See involved reactions above.

  42. P.G. Sharrow says:

    Rossi claims that the enrichment adds about 10% to the cost of the nickle charge. My study does not indicate Au & Ag are involved. pg

  43. Zeke says:

    Thank you Adolfo, as always. Although, I do not think Blacklight and E-cat have anything in common.

    The products of Blacklight are energy and a new state of the hydrogen atom, the hydrino.

    The products of the E-cat are energy and copper. The copper has been intelligently and electrically transmuted from the hydrogen and the nickle through a resonant effect, and that is why there are low temps for the fusion of the nuclei. The resonant frequency is provided by some other metal which is present. I wonder what PG thinks that is if he doesn’t think it is Au or Ag? (:

  44. Tenuc says:

    tchannon says:
    January 13, 2012 at 3:30 pm
    “http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/TRANSPORT/gyrocars/schilovs.htm

    …To me the important thing is definite evidence things can be done…”

    You may be interested in this article in the LIT – a new ‘spin’ on an old idea! …..

    http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/lit-motors-unveils-fully-enclosed-electric-motorcycle-that-wont-fall-down/

  45. Tenuc says:

    Being realistic, I don’t think E-Cat will ever get to market. Too much money being made by a few super-rich elite out of fossil fuels for them to allow this to happen.

    Should E-Cat prove unable to deliver its promise, then they have no issues. If proved it works, then they will drop so much money on Rossi he will sell them the rights and they will suppress. In the unlikely event he decides not to take the cash, I think they will probably drop something else on him!

    It ever was thus… 😦

  46. adolfogiurfa says:

    @Zeke: Though there is a similarity, you are right. The Blacklight process has to reactivate its reactant, aluminum, to its original state, as element, from Al2O3 to Al, so in the process, part of the hydrogen is consumed in this reduction.(They say they use “raney nickel” as catalyzer.-Because this alloy was many years ago the only way to get finely divided and so high surface area Nickel powder), there Nickel does not participate in the reaction.

  47. Zeke says:

    Interesting Adolfo. (:

    The beauty of Blacklight is that it has been patented. However, there have been efforts and harrassment to revoke the patent, or invalidate it. This is a politically charged situation. Rossi should be careful as Tenuc said.

    I would just like to ask the global warming movement a question.

    How are you going to tax, regulate and ration…hydrogen?

  48. P.G. Sharrow says:

    @Zeke; While silver and gold are not part of the mix you are for the most part correct. The E-cat and Blacklight have somethings in common. Most important, the manipulation of hydrogen, the building block of all matter. Hydrogen exists as an “H”ion that is so energized that the electron shell is blown away, it exists as atomic hydrogen and a smaller elemental di-hydrogen, as a small compact hydrino and the Neutron. All atomic energy is the result of change in size of the electron shell of the hydrogen unit. The change in size of a neutron to a hydrogen is about 3.14 times 10 to the 6th power at the speed of light. This causes a large EMF pulse and rather powerfully bumps it’s neighbors. There is a small change in mass/inertia during this change in size and condition.

    Mr.Rossi appears to have put the correct parts together to create a working device that can be dependably initiated and some what controlled. Fairly crude but the latest design is dependable enough to work on demand and can be throttled. He has already sold and delivered a commercial unit, sold 12 more and is readying a smaller domestic device to be on sale at the start of next year, I doubt that this can be quashed as the science, while outside of the main stream, is wide spread and fairly simple. Once you have seen it done it is easy, well sort of. An experimenter has duplicated a working device based on Rossi’s patent application and “Known Art’ in the field.

    Don’t worry about “those” people locking this up. The E-Cat is out of the bag.

    “No amount of hubris can cause an event before it’s time. No amount of arrogance can prevent that event when it’s time has come.”

    Our friend Adolfo knows this very well, He as well knows that Raney Metal is not the only “H” catalyst mix of nickle. 😎 pg

  49. Gray says:

    Interesting comments on NASA, are they involved:

  50. adolfogiurfa says:

    @Gray: From the video “….the rest would be used for environmental control“. Fortunately real breakthroughs in science are made by individuals who are not part of the establishment.

  51. adolfogiurfa says:

    With the recent big findings of oil in Brazil and Norway…without taking into account the 350 years of reserves in the USA, the burning of such “fossil” fuels will be the cheapest way of releasing the hydrogen´s energy, for many years.

  52. Zeke says:

    So now NASA is going to step in and say “We knew it all along.”

    Watch the “experts” claim this is some mysterious process that needs peer review. They have had 30 years of peer reviewed papers to study. Physicists should have been asking themselves this question before E-cat came on the market. They look like fools, ignoring the most basic qualities of electricity and the atom for so long, and then acting surprised by it.

    @PG. Do you agree that the E-cat is transmuting nickle into copper?

  53. P.G. Sharrow says:

    @ Zeke; Both Rossi and independent assay of spent “fuel” indicates 30% copper as well as 15% Iron which Rossi says is contamination from the stainless steel jacket. Rossi says that the nickle that is consumed is the two heavier isotopes and they are converted to copper by hydrogen consumption. Assay indicates that the isotope mix of the resultant copper appears to be the same as normal copper.
    In my opinion this is real fusion, the way God does it to create and power the universe. 😎 pg

  54. adolfogiurfa says:

    @Zeke: “We knew it all along”. Be compassionate, do you imagine how terrible it must be to be staring at a computer screen all day long?, suffering people do not know the joys that we enjoy…and worst of all, after all that sitting on the same chair all day long, to realize, that some “fool” out there, not even “peer reviewed” as they, found what “we” were supposed to find.
    The old spanish saying “Lo que natura non da Salamanca non presta” (What nature does not give, Salamanca.the university-does not lend”) corresponds to the biblical saying:
    “For many are invited, but few are chosen.”
    Which expresses a natural law: Resonance. We cannot listen to a HFR emission with a VLF radio.

  55. Zeke says:

    I think he should call it the Prometheus. And to drive liberals extra crazy, it should be carried by Wal-mart, not homedepot. (:

  56. P.G. Sharrow says:

    @Zeke, may not be Home Depot, only internet for sure. As of this date, only discussions with Home Depot. We should know by September for sure as to the price and marketing network. It looks to me that this may be direct market or local sales and service. If it was me I would bypass the big box and go direct. Big box is for a mature market. pg

  57. adolfogiurfa says:

    @Zeke: In Greek mythology, Prometheus (Ancient Greek: Προμηθεύς, “Forethinker”)[1] is a Titan, the son of Iapetus and Themis, and brother to Atlas, Epimetheus and Menoetius. He was a champion of mankind, known for his wily intelligence, who stole fire from Zeus and gave it to mortals.
    That name would be better for Nikola Tesla…he really did it…and your “new age friends” are stubbornly determined to take the fire out from the hands of humanity, to give it back to God and take us back to a new Dark Age.

  58. Zeke says:

    @PG: Thanks for that. I think the direct marketing of his own product is a wonderful idea. Some countries’ entire economies have grown by 25% because of internet sales. It is important to keep worldwide shipping costs low in order to continue this oportunity to poorer countries.

    Plus it provides added amusement and satisfaction as enlightened science, and our energy future, are carried on through the work of an “unqualified” outsider. (:

    @adolfo: I have written a humble series on the spiritual aspects of this battle against coal, which is essentially a battle against fire itself. I examine the ancient myths of different cultures which celebrate receiving the gift of fire from their gods, and I find that many cultures and religions regard fire as an expression of divine care. There is a powerful theme of hostility towards this gift also.
    It is not finished, but if anyone is interested in 1-6, they can see it here.

    http://zekeunlimited.wordpress.com/2011/12/20/the-gift-of-fire-to-mankind-a-mythical-study-on-the-spiritual-significance-of-coal-pt-1/

  59. adolfogiurfa says:

    @Zeke: It would be logical, as all “modern” gadgets we use today, are powered by that “fire”, that our children should learn its principles, its magic, its power, as early as in the elementary school. That would enable them for a better comprehension of how nature works.

  60. adolfogiurfa says:

    @Zeke: “Hydrogen” is the key in these energy devices, and in order to produce it, a well known fact is that a higher “surface area”(i.e. the smallest particle size) of the electrode to produce it, is preferred .
    http://www.qsinano.com/white_papers/QSI_DSE_Hydrogen_PPT_March_07.pdf
    This is a “conventional” and perfectly working reasoning, while yours, which sees the phenomena involved as waves, it is closer to reality. It reflects the physical direct correspondence between “size”=”wavelength” and energy, as Planck´s equation shows it: E=h*ν, where “ν” is equal to C/λ,and λ = wavelength. Thus, the smaller the “size” the higher the energy..
    This has many practical implications…to say the least, and not to say such “activation” process through “resonance” that you speak about. Thankfully the implicit “weltanschauung” it is commonly rejected.
    Also the concept of “hydrine” (really equal to the known “hydride”) noticed by “Black-Light-Energy”has made us to think “out of the box” regarding the usual chemical reactions and pay attention to those “intermediate” reactions which occur in between those among “molecules”.
    Really, we will be obliged to replace all those “images” imprinted in our mind and replace all of them by the basic laws, those long forgotten principles of the “φύσις” before we got lost in the Babel Tower of names.

  61. Zeke says:

    Nano tech is an incredible area of technology to bring up here. Many nano materials have completely different qualities from their original metals. If simple hydrolysis of water can be made that efficient using nano particle electrodes (pg 6), than I agree, the future does look interesting! (: (:

  62. Zeke says:

    But barring LENR and Blacklight, of course there are other plans for an “energy revolution.” Germany is making the great leap to a low carbon economy. One “success” story is the town of Feldheim. Here is the story:

    “Some 370,000 people in Germany now have jobs in the renewable sector, more than double the number in 2004, a point used as proof that tax payers’ investment is paying off.

    Feldheim has zero unemployment — despite its tiny size — compared with roughly 30 percent in other villages in the economically depressed state of Brandenburg, which views investments in renewables as a ticket for a brighter future. Most residents work in the plant that produces biogas — fuel made by the breakdown of organic material such as plants or food waste — or maintain the wind and solar parks that provide the village’s electricity.

    “The energy revolution is already taking place right here,” says Werner Frohwitter, spokesman for the Energiequelle company that helped set up and run Feldheim’s energy concept.

    http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/finance/20111229/EU.Germany.Making.Renewables.Work/
    emph added, Zeke

  63. adolfogiurfa says:

    @Zeke: That´s really funny!…they are producing CH4!!!, methane gas, a nasty “fossil fuel”, but in this case not so fossilized, as they get it fresh (!), which, on burning, has the strange behavior of turning into CO2 + H2O, just the same as burning Octane (gasoline), a feature ignored by the informed media.

  64. Zeke says:

    AG says, “they are producing CH4!!!, methane gas, a nasty “fossil fuel”, but in this case not so fossilized, as they get it fresh (!)”

    I wonder if they got the utopian town of Feldheim to ban their nasty CH4 emitting dairy cows and cattle.

    I think they should go back to composing – not composting!


    (Brandenburg concerto no 6)

  65. adolfogiurfa says:

    @P.G.Sharrow: From the link you gave: The old cartridge will then be sent to Leonardo Corporation to be recycled. Interestingly, he seemed to indicate that much of the remaining nickel could be salvaged, and it would only need to be re-processed………..RADIO FREQUENCY GENERATORS — In addition to the catalysts, a question was asked about the radio frequency generator that somehow interacts with the reactions inside of the core. Rossi stated this information is very proprietary, but gave a few clues. First, he compared the use of the radio frequencies to martial arts. He claims that the radio frequency generator allows the forces that would normally prevent the fusion process from taking place…
    As you see all pieces of A.Rossi´s system have been “decoded” here, up to its RF generator to produce Zeke´s resonance.

  66. P.G. Sharrow says:

    @Adolfo; Yes, the RF generator is critical to the reaction. When I first heard of the F&P announcement of “cold fusion” I went back to my old fusion studies of the conditions needed for fusion and realized that this had to work. HTNR is a contradiction in terms as high energy protons are too wild to control and hate to fuse. But the packing densities of hydrogen in a metal crystal lattice is very near the densities needed for fusion. LENR HAD TO WORK! just needed a small push. F&P packed the massive palladium with heavy hydrogen water disassociation under electrical stress. This almost would not work for many reasons, but it was a clue. The need of a RF generator was obvious to me to bump the hydrogen proton density over the threshold and into the nucleus. The need for catalyst for increased electron movement and hydrogen packing became apparent to experimenters over the last 20 years. Also the need for maximum surface area was known for some time. Rossi put it all together about 3 years ago. see the link that I posted above and read the transcript. I am thinking of a post on all I have on the E-Cat on my blog. pg

  67. adolfogiurfa says:

    That business will need a lot of nano sized nickel, we could contribute with a method for producing cheap nano nickel in the range of tons.

  68. Zeke says:

    You are right, it is probably nano nickel! [snaps]

    And the temps never run away and become unsafe, because the reaction only works when the Ni is in powder form. Also, the lead box contains the gamma. It does appear safe.

    And I would think that your nano nickel would do the job nicely, adolfo.
    http://www.giurfa.com/

  69. Zeke says:

    We will look forward to your post on E-cat, PG Sharrow.

    The importance of resonance in transmutation should not be overlooked (as NASA seems to be doing). By this I mean, the process of LENR utilizes the resonant frequency of an atom; the atom singles out like frequencies, provided by the catalyst, from a noisy background and strikes the same tune, and the transformation occurs. “A vibrating object will pick out its resonant frequencies from a complex excitation and vibrate at those frequencies, essentially “filtering out” other frequencies present in the excitation.” http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hframe.html

    Fred Hoyle worked on the problems of nucleosynthesis for most of his life. It is difficult in a chaotic high temp situation to get from hydrogen, to helium, and on up to carbon, esp. because lithium is so unstable, he found. He at last made the discovery that exquisite resonance had to play a role in the creation of carbon. This video explains his work on nucleosynthesis clearly:

  70. Zeke says:

    Excuse me, Be not Li.

  71. adolfogiurfa says:

    @Zeke: Your unconscious is right: Using Li it´s a bit troublesome, as some owners of burnt up laptops would agree. Blacklight uses Na instead.

  72. Michael Hart says:

    If it turns out to be true, then no one will be more pleased than I. But, reading the comments section on the Wired site, many of the criticisms of the demonstrations give me cause to be very skeptical about them.

  73. P.G. Sharrow says:

    @Zeke & Adolfo; Rossi claims that deuterium poisons his reaction. Lithium is a resultant of deuterium reaction in Palladium. I have seen no indication of lithium in the Rossi process or assay of exhausted nickel. Claims that only the heavy isotopes of nickel are converted to stable copper and the exhausted fuel assay indicates 30% standard isotope copper. Adolfo is there a cheap way to enrich nickel to 30% heavy isotopes from about 5% natural rate? I don’t know of a way. Rossi claims that his “enrichment” of the fuel nickel only increases it’s cost about 10%. pg

  74. P.G. Sharrow says:

    For those that expect a high tech, polished device I must point out that this is not a fancy transistor radio. More like an old crystal radio. Just look at the devices at the top of this thread, very crude and this is after 3 years of improvements and testing. I am amazed at the speed of improvements in the time used. Even if this produces 10% of the projected output it is still 100 times more then next best thing. Rossi is an engineer/inventor not a scientist. Working out his own pocket, at the ragged edge of the unknown. Give the man a break and cheer. Throw the bricks at those that say it can’t be done as they would never risk their time and treasure on advancement of the human race. pg

  75. adolfogiurfa says:

    @P.G. I do not know that. Blacklight uses “raney nickel”, where sodium reacts with aluminum, in a well known exothermic reaction, but they take it up to an intermediate state: that of the formation of a sodium “hydrine” (commonly: hydride), where they can collect enough energy and then reduce the Al2O3 obtained once again to Alº, while, apparently, Rossi´s reactor makes it directly using with Niº without any Alº whatsoever:
    Abstract:
    The action of hot NaOH melt on metallic nickel surfaces in the temperature range 700–850 °C is investigated. It is observed that nickel dissolves in NaOH to form sodium nickelate (NaNiO2) and the melt-metal interface becomes coated with a film of nickel oxide (NiO). The corrosion rates of Ni in NaOH under the experimental conditions are notably high, 2–3 orders of magnitude higher than those reported at lower temperatures.

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0254058496800988
    What we are trying to understand here is what does it happen, if conditions are adjusted, as to untap only part of the energy so as to allow the reaction to continue . It would seem that this works in the atomic scale, not allowing the complete reaction to happen, which would give as a result a final and relatively equilibrated compound, in this case the molecule of a nickelate. Some metals, like copper, (and Nickel is its “cousin”) are not usually considered amphoteric, but they become amphoteric in a proton (H+) donor medium, as some superior alcohols. (Cu(OH)2 + glycerol + NaOH)

  76. adolfogiurfa says:

    @P.G. and all: Why to bother to build such strange devices if we have that old, round and shiny thing above us. Let´s better follow Nikola Tesla´s blue prints.

  77. Zeke says:

    There is further evidence that transmutation is occuring at very specific harmonics.

    Theophanes Raptis, a Greek scientist, has carried out work with wires in which the extremely energetic events (“strong X-ray emissions up to 100Kev and even neutron emissions”) happen at specific lengths along the wire. This indicates that the wire is acting as an antenna and that the harmonics for the nuclear reactions are caused by highly specific harmonics.

    “As it will be shown by the proposed analysis the high transient currents produced by these high voltage pulses
    can form transient steady waves on the wires, acting as transient antennas, the basic harmonic of which is
    creating excess bipolar Coulombic forces between its opposite pulsating parts.
    We also explain how this phenomenon can be utilized as a primitive example of low energy-high power
    disruptive phenomena that can affect even nuclear matter. The produced fusion effects have already been experimentally realized by many researchers see [6,7,8,9] however due to lack of proper explanation of the
    origin of the high forces they could not be used for fusion applications of practical importance.” ~Theophanes Raptis

    I asked him at a presentation he gave for world science datatbase if he had gotten an isotopic analysis of his wires done, but he said no.
    http://www.worldsci.org/php/index.php?tab0=Scientists&tab1=Display&id=2135

  78. Zeke says:

    Should read:

    This indicates that the wire is acting as an antenna and that the conditions for the nuclear reactions are caused by highly specific harmonics.

    It’s a near field effect.

  79. adolfogiurfa says:

    Some of the entanglements we use to fall in is that of the multitude of names. If we could accept a transitional “language” we could understand many things. Elements (atoms) and particles are part of this problem. The arrangement, made originally by Mendeleev, was after the musical octave, where, we can represent each element as a key of a piano keyboard, and when, if pulsed or pressed, it produces a particular “sound”, which, if we have just a little of musical “ear” (and we are not ideologically and mortally deaf), we will hear it develops an inner “octave” itself: In our present discussion those “isotopic states” of that particular “element” or “note”.
    We should agree, also, in what we usually proclaim we formally believe: Our believe in “relativity”(a particular phenomenon is relative to its parameters), thus we could see that our reality repeats itselff, from the biggest to the smallest, and it is useless to trouble and confound ourselves with an inextricable mess of particles of every size (and “flavor” also!, like the neutrinos).
    What is it, then, our beloved “particles”, planets, or whatsoever hard and round we find in our universe?. Well, if we agree, convene, in a common language, say that of the undulatory nature of the “Physis”, then we could affirm that these round, hard and vibrating “pebbles” are nothing else but the waves themselves, captured by the observer, in their fleeting existence of nano seconds or million of years, that moment when two opposite forces get together almost neutralizing between themselves, like OH and H to become a transient drop of H2O. The same with hydrogen or whatsoever.
    Thus, as “reactions” occur among molecules (composed elements) and have been described by the proper equations, where they “mix” always following certain defined ratios, Rossi´s reaction happen in the inner “centers of gravity” of a particular element, within its inner octave, reacting with one or more of such “isotopes”. The smaller the size of the “particle”, the smaller the wavelength, the higher its frequency and the higher energy it has.

  80. Nick Wright says:

    Light elements release energy as they combine, this is why suns are hot. Elements heavier than iron (26) take in energy in construction.This generally only occurs in supernovae. Since copper(29) is heavier than zinc(28) then it would use energy, not liberate it. Therefore sadly the ecat cannot work.

    [Reply] AFAIK, Nickel is the powder used, not Zinc. Nickel is also lighter than Copper, but since the amounts of Copper found are small, the transmutation might be a secondary reaction. I’m undecided on the E-cat, but I don’t think your argument decides the issue.