The UKIP effect seems to be taking hold

Posted: April 25, 2013 by tallbloke in solar system dynamics

From the Telegraph:

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Every so often, Britain is shaken by a new political force that articulates a sense of frustration at the old structures, or a yearning for something new. Sometimes these movements – like the Labour Party at the start of the 20th century – turn into a momentous presence that permanently transforms the national landscape. More usually they wither and fade.To begin with, the political establishment almost always ignores these new movements. This is because they articulate heretical thoughts that cannot be countenanced within the framework of mainstream discourse and practice. They are so challenging that it is much easier to pretend they do not exist.

Until very recently, this has been the fate of Ukip. The British media and political class has always found its basic proposition – that Britain should leave Europe – unthinkable. For a long period, Ukip had virtually no airtime on the BBC (which controls some 60 per cent of news coverage), while on its rare appearances it tended to be mocked.Newspaper coverage was also negligible. Ukip was forced to resort to old-fashioned techniques that have been all but abandoned by the established political parties: hustings appearances, distribution of party literature, word-of-mouth contact.

Read the rest here

Comments
  1. vukcevic says:

    Farage proclaimed that ‘Belgium is pretty much a non-country’, and indeed he should know, his ancestors emigrated to England from Ardennes on Franco-Belgian border.
    He also said that president of EU has ‘charisma of a damp rag and the appearance of a low-grade bank clerk’, and then he promptly apologized to bank clerks.
    This man can’t do wrong.

  2. Stephen Richards says:

    The EU elite need a massive shake up. UKIP cannot do that but they could shake them a little by taking the UK out of Europe. The french people want to leave. They never wanted to join. They held a referendum and said NON but the president (de Gaulle I think) ignored them.

  3. Joe Public says:

    They can’t be any worse than Labour or the Con/Lib consortium.

  4. Doug Proctor says:

    The rise of the conservative practical Man: possible in the age of social technologies, but unlikely in the age of what’s-in-it-for-me populism (the considered flaw of a mass, elected democratic rule).

    Still, here’s an idea:

    With all the ridiculous subsidization of the green corporate elite, you might think that a bold, upfront list of what would be axed and how much this would put DIRECTLY into the voters’ pockets could meet with election day success.

    Infrastructure is about our future benefit, most of which turns out to be a mirage. Redirecting wasteful spending into a cheque at the end of the year is about now.

    Yeah – 1 year in which taxes stay the same but budgets are cut, and all that not-spent money gets redistributed back to the people who paid it. Not corporations, people. With the same amount reduced from the personal tax plan the following year (inflation adjusted, of course).

    Wouldn’t that be a bold move.

    And wouldn’t it frighten the poltical class everywhere.

  5. G. Watkins says:

    I understand the limitations of UKIP but the completely “wet” and hypocritical Tories have lost my vote. Voting for the Lib Dims is not an option and the party which spends other peoples money is clearly not fit to run Parish Council.
    Richard North’s Harrogate Agenda could be an alternative some years from now.
    I wonder how many Lib Dims end up with plum jobs in Brussels after the next general election – Clegg for sure.

  6. Kon Dealer says:

    I’ll be voting UKIP to give those two cheeks of the same arse a good kicking.

  7. tallbloke says:

    Nigel Farage is on BBC question time tonight at 10.30

  8. tallbloke says:

    Fine with me. Let europe keep them.

  9. Nothing wrong with Europe. Lots of it is lovely. In lots of different ways. Most of its peoples are nice.

    They just have a bad case of the EU.

  10. Zeke says:

    I knew you Brits could come up with something a little stronger than an “I Have a Little List.” (:

  11. Have seen some of Nigel F’s videos – great entertainment as well as common sense. The one on the bail-out of Spain was great (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN_1mF-3JTI) I can not find the one on windfarms at present but it is one that should be widely seen.
    I wish we had someone like NF in OZ. There is no doubt that he would be elected to our Federal Senate as an independent or the leader of a new party.

  12. Zeke says:

    Some may still be unsure about the prospects for peace in Europe after two world wars. The argument has been made that a political union, such as the EU, between nations is necessary to keep peace on the European continent. This has largely gone unrefuted. But there is some very important research done by a man named RL Rummel, which demands attention. He has painstakingly assembled the data in thousands of lines of tables comparing the death rates in democracies, authoritarian systems, and totalitarian regimes. It is very clear that authoritarian and totalitarian governments are far more lethal first to their own citizens, and are also much more belligerent towards other countries.

    Democracies have the least rate of democide – that is Rummel’s term for death by government – and do not go to armed conflict with other democracies. This is plain from the last century. To illustrate, let’s look at the casualties in WWII as broken down in Rummel’s Death by Government:

    “Moreover, even the toll of war itself is not well understood. Many estimate that WWII, for example, killed 40-60 million people. But the problem with such figures is that they include tens of millions killed in democide [death by government]. Many wartime governments massacred civilians and foreigners, committed atrocities or genocide agaisnt them, executed them, and subjected them to reprisals. Aside from battle or military engagements, during the war the Nazis murdered around 20 million civilians and prisoners of war, the Japanese 5,890,000, the Chinese nationalists 5,907,000, the Chinese communists 250,000 [figure rose to millions after the war], the Nazi satellite Croatioans 655,000, the Tito Partisans 600,000, and Stalin 13,053,000 (above the 20 million war dead and Nazi democide of Soviet Jews and Slavs). I also should mention the indiscriminate bombing of civilians by the Allies that killed hundreds of thousands, and the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Most of these dead are usually included among the war dead. But those killed in battle versus in democide form distinct conceptual and theoretical categories and should not be confused. That they have been consistently and sometimes intentionally confounded helps popularize the 60 million figure for the number of war dead in WWII, a figure that is way above the calculated estimate of 15 million killed in battle and military action.”

    Essentially, Rummel said that it is only democracies do not attack each other and do not commit anywhere near the democide that powerful centralized governments do. So, if his data and theory are correct, than European states, having become democracies, would not go to war against each other. It follows that the EU is destroying the chances for that peace by collectivising debt and forcing all members to bear the economic burden of failure in foreign countries, and by legislating from Brussels, so that member countries are less and less democratic. Already, 75% of legislation passed in the UK is passed on and carried out from the European Union, and citizen control of that country I think is nearly extinct. Historically, this has turned deadly, as Rummel shows.

    I would like to suggest, and I think the data supports it, that the EU as a poltical union is actually reversing the chance for peace that naturally emerges between open societies.

  13. Stephen Wilde says:

    I agree with Zeke.

    It has been clear for a while that the EU is a force for bad rather than good.

  14. Doug Proctor says, April 25, 2013 at 8:48 pm

    Doug, I am with you 100% of the way. Reduce taxation and cut out the majority of almost-always-less-efficient government ‘services’ and subsidies. The time has come, to trust the people, with our consequently increased incomes, to make our own choices and spend our own incomes more efficiently than governments could ever do, however well intentioned.

    Snag: A majority of people think that they are poorer than average – and we live in a democracy.

    Solution: Introduce a compensating increased re-distribution of income between rich and poor, commensurate with the simultaneous reduction in general taxation, and effected through a negative income tax.

    The time in the evolution of the modern democratic state has arrived where governments should stop insulting poorer and middle income people by assuming that they know best and that the people cannot be trusted to spend their own money wisely…Oh! the irony.

  15. tallbloke says:

    The lack of accountability of the unelected council of ministers, along with their rubber-stamp poodle parliament which serves only to preserve the illusion of democracy means there is an insurmountable disconnect between the ruling elite and the citizens of the countries within the E.U. They have been talking about creating a European Army, and no doubt a centralised militaary would sprout a centralised secret service and possibly a paramilitary police force too. It’s all got far too big for its boots, and is a far cry from the ‘common market’ the UK joined under the Heath government in 1973. I was against it then and I’m all for getting out now. Big organisations lack the human touch and local understanding between all the members of society.

    It was amusing last night to hear the conservative member of the panel on the BBC’s Question Time floundering around saying the coalition government would ‘look at this problem’ and ‘do something about that problem’ with Britains relations with the E.U, while Nigel Farage just shook his head and quietly pointed out that “You won’t be able to do that from within”. I wonder if the coalition party members are going to realize that in fact, Britain’s people are sufficiently annoyed with being denied the referendum they were promised that they may well elect the party which will simply pull out first , and deal with the fallout afterwards.

    The Tory representative was sufficiently rattled to mention a referendum, but I saw a youtube clip of Cameron telling one of his own party members there wasn’t going to be one from the despatch box very recently.

  16. tallbloke says:

    UKIP put this on youtube showing the two faced lying nature of the conservative leadership.

  17. Kon Dealer says:

    I voted for the “Common Market” back in 1973 as an idealistic 18 year old.
    Had I known then what I know now I would not have done so.
    And neither would most people.

  18. tallbloke says:

    UKIP MEP Roger Helmer offers this broad brush overview

    The EU: How could it go so wrong?

  19. tallbloke says:

    Legal heavyweight Antonio Estella weighs in on possibility of a Spanish exit from the Euro
    http://blogs.elpais.com/the-screwdriver/2013/04/nos-liberamos-del-euro.html

    [mod: Google translate –Tim]

  20. oldbrew says:

    Delingpole says UKIP is ‘the only serious political party in Britain which does have sensible energy policies.’ Not difficult when you hear the others wittering the usual brain-dead platitudes…

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100212713/time-to-shoot-the-husky-dave/