European Alpine ski resort, been cooling for some years

Posted: May 27, 2014 by tchannon in climate, Natural Variation, weather

Reblog from P. Gosselin’s NoTricksZone


This report traces back to a ski report article which shows data.

Don’t think this is supposed to happen but local global warming allows for local global cooling, any oxymoron going.

I wonder whether this is more general?

Link to article.

Post by Tim

  1. tallbloke says:

    Lets not forget this article:

    I still don’t know why it attracted so little interest.

  2. tchannon says:

    Ah yes Rog that curious result. It looked dubious to me so I didn’t pay much attention, more likely to be an artefact. Crosscheck would be quite easy for those with resources, at least if they understand how things work. It will be in soil temperature data.

    From what I have seen there is wide misunderstanding, almost to the point of jaw drop.
    When (ha) I get the sequel to the Lunar simulation models posted that will be a reference point for further work. One of several routes is extension to how terrestrial ground temperature behaves, one of my interest threads (because it tends to be ignored therefore room to do).

  3. Berényi Péter says:

    Don’t think this is supposed to happen

    Why, we do have this chronofact (in an alternate reality, supported by NSF grant #1239783, handsomely): Dallas is covered in 30 inches of snow, while Greenland has become a tropical paradise. Anything goes, that is. Global weirding. It would be worse if we thought.

    Inspiring change in practices and policies by seeding game-like approaches in informal and formal educational environments in collaboration with catalytic associates

    in. collaboration. with. catalytic. associates.

    I mean, pathetic, really.

  4. Berenyi Peter,

    I really enjoyed your comments a few years ago when we tried to reason with John Cook and his zealots on the mis-named SkepticalScience blog.

    For twelve years I fed at the public trough. Every three yeas we would have to “Sing for our Supper” which involved making proposals that bureaucrats would approve.

    It was really hard to get funding for hard science such as our HIGS (High Intensity Gamma Source). What a shame that we did not realize that feather bedded luxury was being lavished on dismal projects such as the one described in the NSF grant you linked.

  5. All the heat must have moved to Australia LOL … and this month of May to ..,Sydney.
    We still have warm records coming off the conveyor belt here ?
    but Warwick Hughes challenges that

    BTW thanks for a great post and link to some awesome time series data
    The sunspot amplitude cycle (100yr) maxima , peaked in 1964 and has been in a subsequent decline since then.
    This has obviously had some effect on the globe..some where? The European Alps.?

    Some questions here for the IPCC.. Was their data cherry picked to find warming locations only?

    or is the European alps an exception ?

  6. Berényi Péter says:

    Ah, that sks bunch, recalls splendid memories indeed. The last straw in the coffin was their attack on Pielke Sr.

  7. ivan says:

    Just out of curiosity I looked up my records for 2010 – 2013 of the photo record I am making of our local mountain (Canigou) here in the Pyrenees.

    First snow for the year 2010 was on 14 Oct. For 2011 it was 8 Oct. 2012 was 01 Oct as was 2013.

    Now I have to admit this is nor a scientific survey, it is just me looking out of the kitchen window noting there is snow and taking a picture. It also appears that the snow has been lasting longer over the years but I have not noted when the last of the snow has disapeared – it is much harder to see that from the kitchen window.

  8. tchannon says:

    Now that sounds a place to live. I suppose there are up and downsides.

    For many years I visited various mountain regions in or near France. Main thing I noticed is the variability year to year. Pic du Midi access is one where I have met completely blocked and another year essentially barren rock, similar date.

    This year there are reports of late ice on the US Great Lakes yet the weather is summer. Scotland was reporting the deepest mountain snow for years. Back to permanent, we shall see.
    Were some fun photographs of buried skilifts.

    “CairnGorm Mountain Official Report

    Last Update 21.19hrs on Monday 5th May 2014
    CairnGorm is now closed for the 2014 Snowsports Season. The Funicular is open daily weather permitting, but there is no exit from the Top Station except on Ranger guided walks and bike descents.

    There is still snow but you have to do the leg work now. There is still 2/3rds of Coire Cas, but if you are hiking or touring the main attraction is the Ciste Gully, there is still a continuos run from the top of the Ptarmigan Bowl, through the Ciste Bowl and the Ciste Gully to boardwalk level offering up 1500ft vertical descent.”
    Various webcams are up there but few high up.

  9. Roger Andrews says:

    Time to engage the data:

    Here are plots of three temperature records in the High Alps covering the period of interest – Saentis, Sonnblick and Zugspitze.

    The first graph plots 12-month-smoothed monthly means. It shows that effectively all of the warming between 1950 and 2010 occurred in the five-year period between 1985 and 1990.

    The second graph shows that winter temperatures have indeed fallen by 2-3 degrees since 1990.

    The third graph, however, shows that summer temperatures have risen by 2-3 degrees since about 1980.

    [mod: copy on WordPress servers, click for larger, original linked below. Loss of quality inline version… it is 17kB –Tim]


  10. tchannon says:

    That might fit a climatic shift. We might be shifting again.

    Plenty of other issues too,

  11. Roger Andrews says:

    Summers getting warmer while winters get colder. Doesn’t sound like CO2 at work. My guess is that it has something to do with seasonal shifts in the jet stream, but I’ll leave it up to the meteorologists to comment further on that one.

    The Alaska temperature record shows a very similar upward shift coinciding with the PDO “phase shift” in the late 1970s. The upward shift in the Alpine records in the late 1980s, however, doesn’t seem to coincide with anything. Maybe one of Judith Curry’s “stadium waves”?

  12. tchannon says:

    Rog T. tried to explain the Stadium wave to me, basics since I have never seen such a thing so I now know what people do, kind of anyway, but it still relates to nothing I can grasp [1].

    Leroux is one of a number of veterans who mentioned the shift commenting they should explain that before running away.

    1. Been thinking about this. Only time I have attended what is probably a stadium, stone steps which are presumably a terrrace, was with my father who wanted me to see, didn’t understand, couldn’t see, lots of noise. I think we left. Reason was I think a relative playing his first youth game or something like that. This places it 1966, or I think earlier.

  13. tallbloke says:

    Maybe this will help:

    Wyatt and Curry’s idea is that the different climate indices are in a lagging temporal series which clues us into the cause and effect in the climate system. The ‘stadium wave’ is just a loose analogy most people are familiar with.

  14. tchannon says:

    That shows what you explained Rog. Trouble is that I do not relate the effect to earth processes.

    Why might be clarified when I point out that I have been dealing with and observing waveforms for 50+ years.

    What actually is being shown is peculiar in a number of respects so it is literal or generalised? It is showing a wave with variable propagation rate and without dissipation / dispersal.

    Ripples are a large subject. The media matters, compressive or not, free or not.

    A lot of it is confusing.

    “A gravity wave (or gravitational wave ) is a ripple in the curvature of the space-time continuum (the enmeshed combination of our three perceived physical dimensions, plus time) created by the movement of matter. Long thought to exist, although never yet detected, ”


    “Gravity Waves Ripple over Marine Stratocumulus Clouds”

    Neither explain what they mean, assuming on context.