a quote from “The Nonsense That is Ozone-Depletion”
by Ken Ring (2009) at http://www.ourcivilisation.com/ozone/king.htm
One Hole is Larger than the Other
Let’s look at one last factor, so often reported; that the Antarctic hole is larger than the Arctic one. One would think that even if inert heavier-than-air substances could make it up into space, that they would do it more around the densely populated regions of earth — the northern hemisphere; and affect the Arctic Hole more than the Antarctic. No one is disputing that the hole over the Antarctic is definitely much bigger. The Southern hemisphere has a longer winter than the Northern hemisphere because Earth is further from the sun in July than in January. Longer winter means bigger hole. But also maybe, some chlorine is coming from some other source, instead of CFCs. Let’s look around.
Aha! Just a few miles upwind from the Antarctic camp where all the readings about ozone-depletion originate from, is a rather large hill called Mt Erebus.
Mt Erebus is an active volcano, which first erupted in 1982 (coincidentally about when the bigger hole was discovered). Mt Erebus spews out over 1,000 tons of active chlorine every day. Go there and look — it is puffing away all the time. This chlorine, far from being as cold as CFCs, comes out as superheated gas which shoots straight up into the stratosphere. This chlorine does break down the ozone. And Mt Erebus puts out more chlorine per year, all by itself, than all the cars and aerosol cans on earth put together could do in a decade.
It is a little tidbit of science that esteemed experts seem to have overlooked. Moreover, Erebus is not the only active volcano in the world. There are hundreds, thousands, throwing chlorine upwards every second. We can’t cap all the volcanoes.
Tallbloke's Talkshop 
We can, with a cap and trade program.
…Mount Erebus was exonerated (Zredna-Gostynska et al., 1993). Most of the chlorine Mount Erebus throws up takes the form of hydrogen chloride (HCl), which (like other chlorine from natural sources) readily dissolves in the water vapour of the lower atmosphere well before it can reach the stratosphere.
For Mount Erebus to affect the ozone layer, the volcano would have to inject a large proportion of its hydrogen chloride directly into the stratosphere, above a height of about 10 km. Mount Erebus has been active since it was first observed by James Ross in 1840, but appears never to have erupted with the force necessary to send chlorine directly into the stratosphere. The mountain itself is almost 4,000 m high (3,794 m), but the volcanic plume seldom rises above 5,000 m. The amount of gas Mount Erebus emits also bears no relation to the size of the ozone hole. In the summer of 1983, chlorine emissions from Mount Erebus were about 170 tonnes a day. In the following seven summers, when ozone depletion was even more severe, the chlorine emissions ranged from one-tenth to one-quarter of the 1983 figure (Zreda-Gostynska et al., 1993).
No special explanation is needed.
The Antarctica surface is to a large extent at high altitude. Troposphere altitude is lowest at the poles. The place is also surrounded by zero altitude whereas the Arctic is zero altitude mostly surrounded by land, some high altitude.
These combine into different regimes.
The ozone hole occurs when the temperature drops in the stratosphere respectively.
You can see that even a small wave that appeared in the upper stratosphere caused a rise in temperature and the ozone hole disappeared.
The Ozone Hole scare came on before the widespread adoption of the Internet. Consequently the great mass of people who may have wanted to know more about it, and who may have spotted problems with the proposition, were effectively prevented from doing so.
Its likely that the Warmists will look back in a few years, and imagine to themselves that they could have ‘Made it’ were it not for that darned Internet 🙂
Ford: hydrogen chloride (HCl), which (like other chlorine from natural sources) readily dissolves in the water vapour of the lower atmosphere well before it can reach the stratosphere.
Antarctica is a desert. There is very little water vapour anywhere in the atmosphere over the continent.
the volcano would have to inject a large proportion of its hydrogen chloride directly into the stratosphere, above a height of about 10 km
The buoyancy difference between hot gas being emitted from the volcano and the -50C atmosphere it enters does the injecting.
Another piece of useless information about Mt. Erebus, is that it ejects gold dust in it’s plume.
Something that is not supposed to be public information. When discovered, volcanoes were not supposed to be a source of gold and the internationalists did not want a “gold Rush” to despoil their pristine playground…pg
Volcanoes eject water as well as HCl.
From the guardian last year. 6 months apart:
New ozone-destroying chemicals found in atmosphere:
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/mar/09/ozone-hole-antarctica-chemicals
The ozone layer is recovering – there’s hope for the environment yet:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/11/ozone-layer-recovering-global-treaty-chemicals-fossil-fuels
turboblocke, I’ve added a picture of Erebus erupting at the top of the post. How much water vapour are you seeing?
First: there is no hole in the ozne layer anuwhere in the world. Regular ozone values at the equatr is 275 DU. High values are near the polar circles of about 600 DU, and the least values are 150 DU during late witner and early spring. So there is no HOLE, just a decrease in concentration. The cause are not CFCs or even chlorine or nitric acid crystals. Stratopspheric temeperatures below -82ºC to -90ºC make chemical ractions almost impossible, or retard them so much that there is no chemical explanation for the fast reaction normally seen at winter’s end. Only physcal effects are seen:
The hurricane winds of the Polar Vortex make ozone molecules collide with each other and convert them back into O2. As there is no sunlight until much later, no O3 is being formed to replace the loses. Then, much later, UV rays start to dissociate O2 in the stratopshere forming O3 and the ozone values are restored. No rocket science needed to understand the process.
tallbloke says: 6, 2015 at 10:29 pm
“turboblocke, I’ve added a picture of Erebus erupting at the top of the post. How much water vapour are you seeing?”
Roger, Water vapour (the gas) and chlorine ( the gas) are both invisible in the atmosphere! What is it that you think you are seeing in your ‘picture’! That is H2O + HCL “condensate”! Add a pinch of sodium (also present) and you have airborne ocean! That is all you can ever see! Even clouds can be salty!
Thank you Eduardo Ferreyra. The half-life of ozone has a lot to do with the winter depletion over the poles.
It should be possible to measure the difference in the ozone levels at the equator between day and night, that should clear up any worries of ozone depletion in the upper atmosphere.
Antarctic Situation at 2015 November 9British Antarctic Survey Ozone Bulletin
Antarctic ozone today: Ozone depletion remains extensive and the ozone hole still covers most of Antarctica, centered on West Antarctica. It is slowly beginning to shrink and is now around 16 million square kilometres. The ozone distribution is that of late mid spring with ozone amounts over the continent beginning to recover from their minimum, and higher values around the Southern Ocean. Values currently range from around 150 DU over the interior, to over 400 DU over parts of the Southern Ocean. There are significant differences between the various satellite measurements. Through most of the ozone layer temperatures are much below the long term average but are warming. Temperatures in the lowest part of the ozone layer are still below the threshold for Polar Stratospheric Cloud (PSC) formation over a small part of Antarctica and the area with PSCs remains significantly larger than average, but is rapidly decreasing. The polar vortex remains much larger than average in size, but is shrinking. The area of the ozone hole is expected to continue to shrink, but towards the end of next week it will again become more eliptical.
The 2015 ozone hole: Meteorological conditions were favourable for the creation of a significant ozone hole, with a stable polar vortex. Ozone hole levels were briefly reached over the Antarctic Peninsula on August 5 and over Halley the next day in a dynamic event. Significant ozone depletion over the continent began in mid August as the sun returned. Depletion became more widespread by September, exceeding the mean for the last decade and greater than in the last couple of years. Ozone declined by about 1% per day near the centre of the ozone hole. The ozone hole peaked at some 26 million square kilometres in the first half of October. Halley station saw its lowest ozone values since 2011 in mid-month. It was the largest ever for the time of year in the second half of October. It became more elliptical in early November, affecting the Falkland Islands and South Georgia over November 4 and 5. The polar vortex was the largest over the past decade in the upper part of the ozone layer from July to October and the area with PSCs was also larger than average during this period.
It is not clear what effect, if any, the eruption from Calbuco in southern Chile had on the ozone values. It seems that most of the volcanic aerosol remained north of Antarctica.
http://theozonehole.com/2015.htm
One thing that is remarkably consistent for all of the weather balloon measurements we analysed is that in each of the regions, the change of molar density with pressure is very linear. Another thing is that the change in slope of the lines between Regions 1 and 2 is very sharp and distinct.
Interestingly, on very cold days in the Arctic winter, we often find the slopes of the molar density plots near ground level (i.e., Region 3) are similar to the slope of the “heavy phase” (schematically illustrated in Figure 11).
The air at ground level is very dry under these conditions, because it is so cold. So, this is unlikely to be a water-related phenomenon. Instead, we suggest that it is because the temperatures at ground level in the Arctic winter are cold enough to cause something similar to the phase change which occurs at the tropopause.
At this stage you might be thinking: “Well, that’s interesting what you discovered… But, what does this have to do with the temperature profiles?”
The jet streams are narrow bands of the atmosphere near the tropopause in which winds blow rapidly in a roughly west to east direction (Figure 21). It turns out that the high wind speeds we were detecting were the jet streams!
But, these high winds seemed to be strongly correlated to the phase change conditions. This suggested to us that multimerization might be involved in the formation of the jet streams.
Why should multimerization cause high wind speeds?
Well, as we mentioned earlier, when multimers form they take up less space than regular air molecules, i.e., the molar density decreases.
So, if multimers rapidly form in one part of the atmosphere, the average molar density will rapidly decrease. This would reduce the air pressure. In effect, it would form a partial “vacuum”. This would cause the surrounding air to rush in to bring the air pressure back to normal. In other words, it would generate an inward wind.
Similarly, if multimers rapidly break down, the average molar density will rapidly increase, causing the air to rush out to the sides. That is, it would generate an outward wind.
We suggest that the jet streams form in regions where the amount of multimerization is rapidly increasing or decreasing.
There are several important things to note about these plots:
The measurements from all seven of the weather balloons show the same three atmospheric regions (labelled Regions 1-3 in the figure).
For Regions 1 and 2, the molar density plots calculated from all of the balloons are almost identical, i.e., the dots from all seven balloons fall on top of each other.
In contrast, the behaviour of Region 3 does change a bit from balloon to balloon, i.e., the dots from the different balloons don’t always overlap.
The transition between Regions 1 and 2 corresponds to the transition between the troposphere and the tropopause. This suggests that something unusual is happening to the air at the start of the tropopause.
There is no change in behaviour between the tropopause and the stratosphere, i.e., when you look at Region 1, you can’t easily tell when the tropopause “ends” and when the stratosphere “begins”. This suggests that the tropopause and stratosphere regions are not two separate “regions”, but are actually both part of the same region.
http://globalwarmingsolved.com/2013/11/summary-the-physics-of-the-earths-atmosphere-papers-1-3/
Abstract
CO2 is the strongest anthropogenic forcing agent for climate change since pre-industrial times. Like other greenhouse gases, CO2 absorbs terrestrial surface radiation and causes emission from the atmosphere to space. As the surface is generally warmer than the atmosphere, the total long-wave emission to space is commonly less than the surface emission. However, this does not hold true for the high elevated areas of central Antarctica. For this region, the emission to space is higher than the surface emission; and the greenhouse effect of CO2 is around zero or even negative, which has not been discussed so far. We investigated this in detail and show that for central Antarctica an increase in CO2 concentration leads to an increased long-wave energy loss to space, which cools the Earth-atmosphere system. These findings for central Antarctica are in contrast to the general warming effect of increasing CO2.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2015GL066749/full
ren: thank you for all the above. Could CO2 cooling lead to CO2 snow? Otherwise it is not clear
what multimers other than water might form. “mers” of any kind have radiation properties different from their isolated components so are usually detectable.
A. Ames this mechanism is observed in the stratosphere. It can be seen that the temperature affects the amount of ozone. It well can also be seen above the equator.
Tallbloke
Another threat to the west England and Cumbria. Approaching another zone of rain. Because the wind has a direction from south to north rainfall can be lengthy and intense.
http://pl.sat24.com/pl/eu
Are the ozone holes like holes in roads or like holes in Polo mints?
George W, no, the ozone ‘hole’ is actually a layer of ozone about half as thick as the ozone layer elsewhere.
The ‘hole’ should be referred to as a thinning of the layer (or a reduction in thickness). Use of the term ‘hole’ is open to abuse by the scaremongering MWP deniers who, I know, are out to get me.
The Most Recent Full-Day Total Ozone Map for the Globe.
http://es-ee.tor.ec.gc.ca/e/ozone/Curr_allmap_g.htm
@ren says:
December 7, 2015 at 1:35 pm: Could this lead to acceptance that CO2 is a cooler, not a warmer, of the air everywhere?
I remember how we saw that the ozone/CFC postulate was killed by chemists ( Nature 449, 382-383 (2007) | doi:10.1038/449382a) and the Nasa chemistry report (JPL?).
Brett Keane in some areas certainly, like water vapor.
ren, tallbloke:
The reference ren left led to the thesis by Schmithusen
Click to access 00104190-1.pdf
which shows antarctic cooling by CO2.
I submit that if the coldest place has CO2 radiation everyplace on earth does as well,
which opens some interesting possibilities. The question then becomes one
of the balance between the 24/7 CO2 cooling and the diurnal warming. Maybe CO2
really does increase equator-polar heat transport.
For what it’s worth, there are at least 7 active volcanos visible from McMurdo Sound station where Mt. Erebus is located. Possibly nine, but I wasn’t sure about 2 plumes. But I agree, Erebus is not throwing stuff very high; it just smokes all the time and puffs occasionally.
Ozone holes are localized and seasonal events and they do not constitute evidence of ozone depletion on a global scale as claimed by the UNEP in the Montreal Protocol. Please see
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2748016