Brexit or Stay in the EU? – A surprise in Morley that has helped me make my mind up

Posted: March 15, 2016 by tallbloke in government, People power, Politics

Should we vote to exit or stay in the EU? A visit to the Yorkshire town of Morley taught me some lessons On Saturday 6th March 2016, I decided to check out the Brexit rally outside the Town Hall in…

Source: Brexit or Stay in the EU? – A surprise in Morley that has helped me make my mind up

Comments
  1. oldbrew says:

    THE CLASH – Should I Stay Or Should I Go?
    [Chorus:]
    Should I stay or should I go now?
    Should I stay or should I go now?
    If I go there will be trouble
    And if I stay it will be double
    So come on and let me know

  2. A C Osborn says:

    Recently Cameron came to Wales to frighten the welsh farmers over EU Farming Subsidies, which of course was televised.
    But they made a really big mistake of interviewing a young person whos name I didn’t catch who said the Farming Subsidy is not given to us by the EU but by the UK Government, which gives it (along with a lot more cash) to the EU and they re-distribute it.
    Now evrybody should already be aware of this, but they are not.
    The big point that the young person missed is that what Cameron is actually saying is that if we leave the EU HE would not necessarily give the Farmers the same subsidy, he is hiding the fact that the UK Government would have total control over all subsidies and all the EU contributions that we make.
    He should be put to the sword over this fact at the earliest opportunity, all of the “Out” politicians and celebrities should be raising this question on the TV and in the MSM ASAP.

  3. Don Keiller says:

    Why would I vote to remain in an organisation whose own auditors have not been able to sign off the EU budget as “correct” for the last 20 years?

    When the elected “Parliament” of the EU is merely a “rubber-stamp” for legislation produced by the unelected Politburo, sorry, “Commission”?

    If Cameron had addressed the underlying corruption and democratic deficit, demonstrated by the above, then maybe…

  4. oldbrew says:

    ‘Why would I vote to remain in an organisation whose own auditors have not been able to sign off the EU budget as “correct” for the last 20 years?’

    Getting proper receipts etc. off people like the mafia has always been tricky😉
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9376202/Italy-repays-307-million-to-EU-after-road-project-mafia-corruption-exposed.html

  5. catweazle666 says:

    Here is a useful summary of the main points of the upcoming Canada-EU trade agreement.

    http://capx.co/10-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-canada-eu-trade-agreement/

  6. Fanakapan says:

    You cant get away from the fact that an Out vote will result in years of uncertainty. Nobody can claim to have a picture of what would be the result as there are simply too many unknown variables.

    Interestingly, I did hear on the Radio 4 PM show the other day, that parts of wales rank as the poorest parts of Europe. I’d have to ponder the veracity of that statement, but it remains the case that Wales does get back a useful sum of the money that the UK pays to the EU. It was surprising that a vox pop of locals in a rundown area, who presumably benefit from EU assistance, produced people from the working classes who with some vigour supported Out.

    It might be the case that the impoverished parts of Wales, and the numerous other parts of the UK who receive regional assistance, would likely fare better with foreigners deciding who gets what, than they would if such assistance were solely at the behest of the UK government. To expect otherwise would be an example of hope over experience. No doubt those who disagree would care to ponder upon the scenario of Gideon scraping about for cash, and seeing tempting sums that could be ‘Saved’ in areas that would never produce a Tory MP this side of doomsday🙂

  7. E.M.Smith says:

    Thanks for the link. Well stated and a good read.

    I’m “a Yank”, but Mum was from England and Dad’s family came over in the Potato Famin from Ireland, so I am of UK Extraction.

    As an “involved outsider”, I can only ask “What benefit comes from washing tax money through unelected hands in Brussels? ” and “What benefit comes from law made by unelected Eurocrats?”

    I can’t think of any.

    Much like in the USA where the Federal Government is often more cost than benefit to the States, local control is cheaper and better. Just saying….

    As far as being “in” Europe: The United Kingdom never can be. You stand alone, and always will. That is not a bad thing. I do not live in my neighbors house. Yet we are both happy with that. The UK can be prosperous on the world stage standing proud, and alone, not in the back of a German or French choir. Not part of The Holy Roman Empire Part Deux.

    Trade? Is China part of the USA? Yet they dominate imports. Trade is disjoint from political affiliation. The UK can have the entire North American continent as a free trade zone just for the asking. Really. Think Canada would say no? Think “desperately seeking TPP” Obama would say no? We speak a language derived from yours (I say that as Mum struggled with the differences, as do I from time to time… ought or should?….) and owe the best parts of our culture to you (and certainly NOT to “The EU”). You are welcome here as an equal partner. I suspect the same is true in Australia, New Zealand, and throughout the Commonwealth.

    To be a bit brash (but we Yanks are that… no?) you don’t need them. Not the Germans nor the French, nor the Spanish. I’d have thought a few dozen wars with them would have made the historical point. The UK depends on the sea, but not much else, and the sea leads to a much larger world than Europe. Europe will still be there, and will still trade (as they do with Switzerland and Sweden and the USA) but you need not Kiss The Ring of Brussels to trade. Look to the whole world and see a bigger place. Th EU is hitting the rocks of multicultural collapse, and you need not sink with them. Be yourself, and be proud of it.

  8. Bloke down the pub says:

    Interesting article, though I don’t see the connection to ‘solar system dynamics’ unless a vote to leave will shift the Earth off its axis.
    Fanakapan says that a leave vote will lead to years of uncertainty. I very much doubt that ten years back we could have predicted with any certainty what state the EU would be in today. Voting to stay will lead to just as much uncertainty as voting to leave.
    E.M.Smith, Hail to the Chiefio. I’m curious as to what our cousins across the pond think about all this. I can understand why O’Bama would feel safer with us staying in the EU to prop it up and restrain its more anti-US tendencies, but does he seriously believe that the UK is better off in?

  9. Bloke down the pub says:

    ‘There was only one benefit which seemed to be a genuine benefit of EU membership. International mobile phone roaming charges have been cut significantly by EU edict. Well that is a benefit. A small one, but fair enough.
    This in fact is typical of EU legislation, as it benefits those who do a lot of cross border work, but is paid for by the rest of us.

  10. Fanakapan says:

    E.M.Smith:

    I’m always amused, and I mean no disrespect, when Americans who themselves live within a Union of 50 States of some varying cultural diversity, and that have pooled their sovereignty, voice ardently anti EU opinions.

    Its a common trait amongst Americans of fairly recent British linage to forget that the USA was made into what it is today by the efforts of many different European peoples. Indeed I’m sure some wag might even point to the USA and suggest that its what the EU could become.

    As for Britain standing alone, the last time it found itself in that position, collapse was only averted by the supporting hand of the USA. Britain remained pretty much on the American dole until well into the 50’s ? Somehow I dont imagine that Uncle will be inclined to take on that burden again ?

    Woodrow Wilson said that America was no longer an Anglo Saxon nation back in the early years of the 20th century. He was likely a little premature with that statement, but the same one made today would garner little opposition🙂

  11. p.g.sharrow says:

    The Eu is nothing like the USA or England. The EU is ruled by a self important Bureaucracy that recognizes no control over their actions and dictates. The U. S. as well as Briton governments have limits on their field of action and the leadership of their government is selected by their electorate. There is no controlling authority over the E.U. bueaucrats. America is if anything, even more Anglo Saxon in their outlook then are the British! Time for Briton to rejoin the Anglo-American civilization and let Europe drown in their own cesspool…pg

  12. tallbloke says:

    Fanakapan: As for Britain standing alone, the last time it found itself in that position, collapse was only averted by the supporting hand of the USA. Britain remained pretty much on the American dole until well into the 50’s ? Somehow I dont imagine that Uncle will be inclined to take on that burden again ?

    Wikipedia:
    The Marshall Plan aid (approximately $130 billion in current dollar value as of March 2016), was divided amongst the participant states roughly on a per capita basis. A larger amount was given to the major industrial powers, as the prevailing opinion was that their resuscitation was essential for general European revival. Somewhat more aid per capita was also directed towards the Allied nations, with less for those that had been part of the Axis or remained neutral. The largest recipient of Marshall Plan money was the United Kingdom (receiving about 26% of the total), followed by France (18%) and West Germany (11%).

    So, the UK got about £20 billion in today’s money in aid from the US. Around one years worth of membership fees of the European union.

    How much of a “burden” was it to the US economy of the time? Very little, and it was a diplomatic big win for the US too.

    I’m sure some wag might even point to the USA and suggest that its what the EU could become.

    The EU is an undemocratic, incoherent tower of babel and won’t last much longer no matter which way the UK votes in June. In any case, I have as little desire to live under a US style federal system as an EU one. I want to be a member of an independent, globally trading, pioneering and exciting nation state.

  13. tallbloke says:

    Pub Bloke: Interesting article, though I don’t see the connection to ‘solar system dynamics’ unless a vote to leave will shift the Earth off its axis.

    Oh it’ll be worse than that, according to project fear.

    Thanks, fixed. WordPress allocates the default category to reblogs unless I edit after posting. I didn’t have time…

  14. Fanakapan says:

    Depending upon who you read, and personally I prefer Corelli Barnett, the UK was the single biggest recipient of aid under the Marshall Plan.

    History shows that the bulk of that aid was piddled away in propping up those who had grown fat during the war, and rather than invest in R&D, imagined that their supposed stranglehold upon ‘The Empire’ with its inherent anti competitive spirit, would last indefinitely. They even managed to close their eyes to the fact that American aid demanded the elimination of the Sterling Area malarkey that enabled them to foist inferior products on a market that had little choice.

    It would be as well to ponder upon whether or not the likes of Ree’s Mogg, and Duncan Smith et al, are not spirit of the spirit of those who over the years have promised much, but delivered little ?

  15. hunter says:

    I would rather have seen the US give the $US150billion we were holding from Iran given to Britain than to the mad mullahs any day. But we have the leaders we are stuck with…..

  16. oldbrew says:

    Re: ‘those who over the years have promised much, but delivered little’

    Isn’t that the EU’s job?

  17. E.M.Smith says:

    @Bloke Down The Pub:

    Most Americans don’t think about it at all. Most of them can’t even name our own States or the Vice President. A few will know about it. Most of them will not understand it. Many will still have an opinion, but they will be all over the place and mostly not founded in information.

    The remaining few with well reasoned oppinions will be for it, against it, and a few who think it irrelevant.

    Hope that helps😉

    @Fanakapan:

    Post W.W.II the USA sent buckets of money all over Europe in the Marshal Plan, but mostly not to the UK, who’s Empire we requested be destroyed… I’d not call that welfare…

    Britain WILL always stand apart, or it will cease to exist. So yes, Britain can never be a part of Europe. It can become an EU Satripy named Britain, but that will not be Britain.

    As I noted above, I see myself a “a Yank”, and it is your house to paint, not mine. My interest is only “from a distance”, and in the hope I might be able to remind what Britain has already lost in those who have left it. (Mum once said roughly “all the best and bravest had left”, I can’t give evidence for or against, only report one British Subject’s statement.)

    Per the US States: One of the great sadnesses here is the loss of individual differences and States Rights. Our worst war ever was fought over that and the scars still run deep. Undergoing forced homogenation has not had a good result, IMHO. I would rather Ohio still spoke German, Louisiana French. Similar strain persists in Canada vis the Quebecois. Being set to periodic “reducation” for thinking ill of anyone for the “wrong reason” gets real old.

    It was our economic system and Republic government that lead to greatness, not the homogenizing. But don’t worry, Berie will make us the equal of Europe. Democacy and Socialism. And welfare state for all.

    So I don’t presume to tell you what to think or do. I can only report on what it looks like from my POV and let you do what you wish with the information. I think the USA was better when a Californian was clearly different from a New Yorker. Now it’s only Texas with much sense of self tied to State, and even that fading fast.

    Basically, Britain can cease to exist as a New Holy Roman Empire finally incorporates it, or it can stand apart. I can not do both. Your choice.

  18. Richard111 says:

    Today’s news from Brussels convinces me the EU is a basket case. It would appear that once I have an EU visa that allows me free access to all EU countries I can travel to a city of my choice, commit a serious crime, then travel to another EU city in a different EU country. There, even if I am arrested, I can’t be extradited back to the country where I committed the crime. Seems my ‘human rights’ kicked in. Murdered people do not have ‘human rights’! They’re dead you see!

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