ESM: New EU treaty in the works will bankrupt nations

Posted: May 4, 2016 by tallbloke in EU Referendum, government, Obituary, People power, Robber Barons

EU-sinkingThe EU is a curious mix of Autocratically controlled crony capitalism (Google and McD’s love it), and socialist redistribution. The poorer countries are in the east (ex-soviet communist, now democracies); and south (Mediterranean siesta economies).

If the EU applied to join the EU, it would be refused on the grounds that it doesn’t respect basic democracy. It is controlled by unelected bureaucrats who dictate new legislation to a rubber stamp of a parliament. The member nation states are in the process of having their sovereignty dismantled, using the European Court of Justice, the borderless Schengen zone, the single currency and the (German dominated) central bank.

It’s a catastrophe unfolding before our eyes. The single currency has all but destroyed Greece’s economy, with 50% youth unemployment blighting the lives of the young. The rest of the mediterranean countries are economic basket cases too. France is headed the same way.

Here’s how the EU intends to deal with the massive structural problem it has created. You won’t believe this. The European Stability Mechanism is about to be injected with steroids. The UK can’t be forced into this, because we didn’t join the single currency, but it will have a huge impact on UK if we don’t get off the sinking ship.

At first, I thought this must be a spoof. But here’s the official document, and all the quotes in the video really are in there.

It’s nuts. We have to leave on June 23.

Obama added about three percentage points to the ‘Out’ campaign in the polls, which are now neck and neck. I hope he comes back to tell us what to think again.

  1. What is immediately sad, to me upon reading the above, is that the public is so incompetent that it could only respond 3 percentage points to Obama’s african-dictator character. But then I remember the same public has its own insane “leaders” to respond to as well. We are all bathing in the insanity of this era’s version of “leadership” (“African dictators” all) every day.

  2. tallbloke says:

    The case for Brexit in 3 minutes

  3. Rossshire Mannie says:

    Hmmm, Yes indeed Harryd. , and all we are obsessed about today in education is the sumj..conjugative ( or whatever itz caled) etc ie Grammatical terms – hu – yes we did get a LITTLE of that in Pr School and very little in Sec School, a long time ago. Any way “we are all so well educated to Graduate level” – but truth be told, how many are well taught in the Real or Practical Sciences? …. and THAT is the trouble, IMHO. Modern degrees are taught following the money. SO if we are not gullible nor incompetent, it’s because that’s what we’ve (They’ve) been taught. I was taught how to PRODUCE FOOD, then in Teaching, it the EEC was encouraging us to grow food ” for Intervention ” ie to put into storage ( for the rainy day ) until the mountains of food became excessive. SO who do we vote / follow? – Ans. Those who pay our wages and will then control our destiny. If the tune is right, cool, or whatever you desire to call it, you’re on a winner – but you do not live for ever – and so “every dog has its day” ALL talk and no Play or was it All talk and no PAY > We need more Thought for FOOD.

  4. A C Osborn says:

    Roger is this going to be highlighted in the MSM?
    Daily Mail, Express, Telegraph etc?
    This needs the widest possible dissemination.

    It really is frightening how undemocratic the EU has been, is and will be.
    This is the EU version of UN Agenda 21 and UN Sustainable Development.

  5. The “single market” was just economic suicide for Europe because countries have different currencies to accommodate the differential rates of growth. And because they have different currencies, as a country “falls behind”, the currency drops in value, then it’s own labour becomes cheaper, goods bought from abroad are more expensive, those from home are cheaper.

    So, having your own currency is a great thing for any country that is struggling because it produces very strong negative economic feedbacks allowing countries that “fall behind” to continue to have a competitive advantage (by lower wages).

    The problem with a fixed currency, is that countries that “fall behind” economically, don’t get any advantages from currency devaluation. Instead, government’s get less income, they then have less money to spend on stopping crime eating away the economy and investing in infrastructure. Thus rather than tender to benefit countries that fall behind a single currency produces strong positive feedbacks so that those that fall behind tend to fall behind at an ever growing rate, and those that do well (Germany) tend to prosper at everyone else’s expense.

    Thus the only way an area can retain a single currency, is if there is a super powerful state that taxes the richers areas and then pushes vast sums to the poorer areas – thus deflating the economic growth of those with a faster growing economy and inflating the economic growth of those doing badly.

    … That is acceptable, when there are strong social ties within the monetary area and there is general agreement on such things as “how long we work” and “how much money we put aside for retirement” and “how much money goes into welfare” … what the “acceptable” state of roads are.

    But …. it all falls badly apart when you got very different cultures, economies and climate. That is the fundamental reason why Rome never conquered the northern Germanic peoples – it was simply that the benefits of Roman “culture” were not sufficient to compensate for the problems of foisting a southern Mediterranean culture onto northern europe.

    In other words, Europe is bound to fall apart – the only question is whether it does so amicably as the UK intends to do – or through some almighty civil war.

  6. Just been watching the video – I think you need a cartoon from Josh with some Dracula like figures in Nazi Uniform coming out of their cryogenic chambers and saying “we’re back!”

  7. spetzer86 says:

    O is really at his best when he’s talking gun control. People in the USA are buying guns like there’s no tomorrow. Maybe because we have a very strong feeling there won’t be.

  8. Fanakapan says:

    It might be worth remembering that the USA manages a ‘Single’ currency in an area of such diverse economic performance as that of Mississippi, and Washington State. The Americans have accepted the fact that the under performing members of the Union must be ‘Supported’ by the engines of progress.

    As for Greece, lets not forget that the primary architects of the current Greek malady have been the Greeks themselves. Obviously the situation has been exacerbated by the inability of the richer EU members to take a leaf from the American book, and simply have a whip round for the 3% of the EU economy that Greece represents.

    The Greek calamity has been, and still is, something of a profit centre for a veritable army of financial vultures who make money from financial distress. If the EU has a main fault in dealing with the Greek business, then it would be one of allowing the scavengers in, instead of dealing with the problem in house ?

    As for Britain being somehow insulated from the Euro imploding should we be outside the EU, thats nothing but a fantasy. Such an implosion would affect the economy of the whole world on a similar scale to that of the Dollar imploding. Quite simply, thats why we’re not going to see either the Dollar or the Euro go for a ball of chalk.

  9. Fred Tumbler says:

    Why I’m, voting out/

    The EU has 4 presidents and citizens cannot vote any of them out of office.

    President of the European Council
    President of the European Commission
    Presidency of the Council of the European Union
    President of the European Parliament
    And of course
    High Representative for Common Foreign and Security Policy

    Labour’s Frank Field made the left-wing case for Brexit on the Daily Politics:
    “many of the social rights, which are trumpeted about as European, were ones which we actually took into Europe.
    European countries that refuse to give shelter to refugees could be forced to pay into the coffers of states that do, under plans to be unveiled by the European commission on Wednesday.
    TONY Blair last night defended his decision to open Britain’s doors to hundreds of thousands of eastern Europeans migrants.
    Turkish citizens awarded visa-free travel to Europe could simply disappear because the European Union has no system to detect visitors who overstay their welcome.

    “The European Union should start moving towards a United States of Europe,” declared the EU’s vice-president.

    A document signed last September in Rome by the speakers of the national parliaments in Germany, France, Italy and Luxembourg calls for the creation of a full blown “federal union of states”. Not content with merely monetary union and free movement, the declaration, signed by the speakers of the national parliaments in Germany, France, Italy and Luxembourg states that they want to integrate a broad spectrum of policies. “It should include all matters pertaining to the European ideal — social and cultural affairs as well as foreign, security and defence policy,” the declaration states.

    In the same vein, in March the EU president Jean-Claude Juncker declared that the EU needed its own “common army”.

    Germany is once more pushing for an EU army encompassing all 28 member states with a joint HQ and shared military planning.
    The German and Dutch armies and navies are poised to “merge”, creating the nucleus of the European Union’s longed for pan-EU military force ” with two Dutch units already coming under German command.. Pointing to German ministerial statements spelling out the creation of an EU Army as the ultimate goal, critics say Britain’s military will not be able to avoid being sucked in if the country remains within the Union.
    The two countries are also already sharing the Netherland’s largest war ship, the Karel Doorman, and aim to merge its two naval powers into one unified navy within the next two years.
    The dynamite proposal, from the European Commission’s own policy think-tank, suggests creating a centralised EU intelligence agency which would override the Met Police, MI5 and MI6.

    Plans to extend visa-free travel to Europe to 127 million people from Turkey, Ukraine, Georgia and Kosovo are set to be signed off by officials this week.

    There is now a real possibility that the EU system for border and immigration controls will break down in about 10 days. On March 7, EU leaders will hold a summit in Brussels with Ahmet Davutoglu, the Turkish prime minister.

    (OECD), quitting the EU would cut net migration to the UK by 84,000 a year from 2019 onwards.

    Scotland Yard data, published after a Freedom of Information request, showed the Met has arrested more than 30,000 EU nationals in the capital in each of the past three years. The figures sparked renewed calls for Britain to quit the EU to restore immigration and border controls

    TTIP The proposed Trade agreement, gives corporations the ability to sue national governments for policy making that affects their profit margins.

    TTIP threatens the NHS by guaranteeing market access for corporates, and effectively abolishing monopolies. Hundreds of papers from the secretive trade talks between the US and EU have been released online. They appear to confirm fears that the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership talks between Brussels and Washington will, when ratified, lead to the health service being privatised or dismantled.

    Prof. Patrick Minford of Cardiff Business by revealing in testimony to the House of Commons Foreign Affairs select committee that the cost of living for those in the United Kingdom would drop by eight per cent “on day one” if Britain leaves the EU.

    MORE than 100 chief executives from leading financial firms last night backed the campaign for Britain to quit the EU.

    JUST weeks before the Brexit poll the the European Commission has announced plans to sue the UK over a road tolls for heavy goods vehicles.
    British fishermen would gain a much bigger share of cod, haddock, plaice and other fish caught off the UK coast if we left the EU, according to the fisheries minister.
    Ports in which boats lie idle for much of the year could be thriving centres of employment, says George Eustice.

    Europe enters the age of disintegration

    Then of course the many arguments about Trade with the EU declining and the EU itself is economically stagnating.

  10. tallbloke says:


    Greece’s oikonomos was doing ok until they joined the euro.

    Now they have 50% youth unemployment. How much comfort do you think those young people will take from your 3% figure?

  11. Fanakapan says:


    I think you’ll find that Greece was well in the Klart before joining the Euro, and they employed the Vampire Squid, Goldman Sachs, to massage the books ?

    Obviously they joined with the intention of offloading decades of corruption, but misjudged the endplay ?

    It has to be said though, that the EU people were probably equally at fault in that they were over anxious for as many as possible to be in the Euro, and likely overlooked the distinct probability of Greece becoming a problem.

    The fact remains that through ineptitude of a huge magnitude, the Greek situation now resembles the situation of an ordinary citizen who when running into the financial buffers, finds himself with debts that arrive with greater frequency than they did when he may have had some money with which to pay. Imagine that well known scenario, and multiply it to be on a national scale, its truly staggering 😦

    The decades of fiscal irresponsibility that Greece embarked upon could have had only one end result, and it may be an argument that being in the Euro Zone has actually had some benefit in as much as they do actually have the back stop of the ECB. But that in its turn has attracted the scavengers. Its an awful mess that will be much harder to sort out now than it would have been had the nettle been grasped from the start.

    It would also be as well to think when linking the Greek misfortune to the EU, that had Greece imploded even outside the EU, its likely the the rest of Europe would have had to stump up faced as they would have been with disaster on their doorstep, or even within their house ?

    Its an unfortunate fact that many choose to view Greece through the prism of Plato, The Iliad, and other classics. One has to view Greece as it has been for the last 200 years, rather than what it may have been 5000 years ago. If reality replaces myth then it may yet be possible to get Greece sorted out.

    And as a final thought, we should remember that the Greeks themselves, the man on the Athens omnibus, want to retain the Euro. They know best how local politicians employ graft without any oversight 🙂

  12. Fanakapan says:

    Ian Bremmers tweet may well be accurate, but fails to divulge how much of the earlier figure was inflated by debt ?

    I’d have to think that the closing of Greece’s debt spigot will have had more to do with the precipitous fall in GDP figures, and shows the extent to which Greece had been living high on the hog for decades, rather than negative benefits accruing from EU membership ?

  13. Paul Vaughan says:

    It’s a big, unsalvageable mess with proposed cures far worse than disease.

    The thing that really creeps me out is the structure and posturing of the organization. How did people ever actually agree to this structure (it must be embarrassing)?

    If the thing lives on it will certainly be with reduced confidence from onlookers. People respect Europe, but there’s something ideologically and ethically unsettling about EU and I just can’t see the thing as trustworthy the way it is structured and posturing. I perceive it as weakening increasingly rapidly, markedly increasing unwelcome risk to global stability (and for me stability’s the bottom line).

    I don’t think they’re serious about addressing the real problems. They appear still stuck in dream mode and they appear to be the hubristic types who would never awaken before crashing.

    I salute the British people for confronting this threat to global stability HEAD ON. It’s the best way to check whether EU is beyond correction. Better do the check and do it aggressively now so lessons learned will sink in sooner.


    If Brexit succeeds, I predict some lucrative banking deals for London from China within 2 years. (Stability is priority #1.) On that path, envision a stabilizing world order with Britain at the top, leading inevitable European reform because it was brave enough to take a bold stand against EU corruption and go first.

    If Brexit fails, the inevitable European reforms may start somewhere else and that place can expect rewards for its global leadership towards improved stability.

    European reform’s inevitable; Brexit is about whether Britain wants to lead the global drive for stability (and be rewarded for it).

    Those are my predictions based on what I hear from better-informed sources through alternative channels.


  14. Paul says:

    This is beyond parody.

  15. ntesdorf says:

    What Hitler failed to achieve through war, the EU has achieved through stealth.

  16. ntesdorf says:

    Congratulations to Luke ‘Ming’ Flanagan ‎@lukeming for carrying the standard of democracy and sanity forward.

  17. E.M.Smith says:

    Just an amazing brazen official theft. Golly…

    BTW, I’d suggest not using the USA s an axample of how well a unified currency works.

    From “The Grapes Of Wrath” era mass economic migrations to the present ongoing collapse of Detroit (now about 75% GONE ) the price of one currency and one Central Economic Authority have not been small. The next collapse in progress is Puerto Rico. Not a State, but minimum wage set by the Federal Law and debts to be paid in $ US, they are suffering a mass migration of workers to the mainland and economic collapse in a sea of debt.

    Hope you are ok with most of Greece moving to Germany, London speaking Spanish, and, say, losing Marseilles, Madrid, and Athens. That is roughly what the USA has had over the decades.

  18. tallbloke says:

    Insightful comments, keep it going.

    I listened to the Luke Flanagan piece on the radio the other day. Unbelievable. TTIP is obviously not in the interests of the peoples of Europe or the USA. It’s a corporatists charter.

  19. Oldmank says:

    That video is really eye-opening.

    There’s an old saying which says “a rotting fish starts to stink at the head”.

  20. tallbloke says:

    More strongarm tactics from Brussels:

    Hungary first threw the glove on Tuesday, May 3rd, with Prime Minister Victor Orbán calling for a plebiscite in the autumn of 2016 against the European Commission’s plan for a mandatory refugee quota system.

    The glove was picked up by the European Commission on Wednesday, May 4. The European Commission not only went ahead with proposed a mandatory asylum seekers plan, but announced a financial penalty of €250,000 per refugee per year refused.

    The money charged on those states as fines would replenish the coffers of those states that are in the front-line and dealing with the refugee crisis, such as Greece and Italy. The redistributive mechanism is justified by the Dublin regulation, whose implementation countries like Austria and Hungary unilaterally defy.

    This standoff could escalate by withholding millions of euro in EU funding and a suspension of visa-free travel.

  21. Fanakapan says:

    E.M.Smith says,

    ”Hope you are ok with most of Greece moving to Germany, London speaking Spanish, and, say, losing Marseilles, Madrid, and Athens. That is roughly what the USA has had over the decades.”

    Even given the automatic scorn that the Britisher has for the folk of the Southern Mediterranean, their moving to London might represent an improvement over the situation that currently prevails where many of those drawn to the capital are from cultures that are completely alien 🙂

    As for the TTIP, there’s no doubt that it could have a far bigger impact on ‘Our Way of Life’ than even the EU. Thankfully, and perversely, it’ll be the Frogs who scupper any chance of the EU signing up to it, thus allowing us Brits to to avoid an embarrassing rupture with the USA 🙂

  22. Paul Vaughan says:

    SCD is a temporal proxy for changes in solar spatial geometry.

    Each time there’s a kink in solar cycle deceleration (SCD), Europe restructures.

    During the big kink in the early 1800s, Europe lost its grip:
    1. Latin American Wars of Independence
    2. Decolonization of the Americas

    My advice based on our simulations: Get out now. You don’t want to be tied to that beast while it’s in it’s death throes. There will be a natural realignment of global geopolitical power. There’s nothing humans can do to stop these shifts. The best we can do is roll with it, seizing the ripe opportunity to turn a disadvantage into an advantage. I recommend affording yourselves freedom & flexibility to turn-on-a-dime to harmonize with nature’s inevitable shift.

    Every slip in the record has been corrected. We’re currently in a slip.

    During these naturally overpowering corrections, human instinct can be to fiercely resist, for example by pressing the red button of war in desperation, trying to hold on to the old order.

    Above is the pessimist’s view.
    Let’s look at this from 2 perspectives.
    Below is the optimist’s view.

    More graceful avenues may be available to leaders with enlightened foresight.

    The EU appears hubristically poised to presume itself above natural correction. It’s sleep-walking towards a cliff.

    A successful Brexit vote will force the needed corrections to US & Chinese foreign policy while simultaneously increasing competition between these 2 players for influence and investment in London, which will suddenly be in a position to broker an alliance for global stability through the period of natural realignment & reform. I predict that under this scenario Europe, Russia, China, & USA will form a practical, strategic alliance to maintain global stability. London will be a prosperous hub in the ensuing era, having once again reasserted and proven itself a bold & formidable player in the world order, capable of strategically and responsibly surging to the fore when necessary to correct serious miscalculations of nations as powerful as USA & China.

    It’s a friendly wake-up call.

  23. David A says:

    “Even given the automatic scorn that the Britisher has for the folk of the Southern Mediterranean, their moving to London might represent an improvement over the situation that currently prevails where many of those drawn to the capital are from cultures that are completely alien”

    While your point regarding the problems of immigration from a religious/social/political structure (Islamic) that will never integrate is correct, you do realize that the two, Islamic emigration and Southern Mediterranean, are orthogonal, and both can certainly happen. However the problems of the former are rapidly causing all of Europe to rebel…

  24. dscott says:

    As an American listening to the Brexit video, what stood out to me was the bench trial in the EU. Why would anyone want to be subject the whim of one person who may have gotten out the wrong side of the bed that day? Or worse, some social justice tyrant wanting to impose their view of the law they want? One of the traditions kept in the US coming from the UK was the trial by jury of your peers. It is a bulwark defense against the arbitrary and capricious adjudication of the law. This one issue in and of itself is the most compelling argument to leave the EU, your liberty is more precious than some bureaucrat’s happiness.


    A comment about Mississippi made by Fanakapan.

    In 2015, Mississippi GDP was 106,880,000,000 or $106.8 billion and was ranked 50th on a per capita basis against other States.

    In any ranking, someone has to be last and someone has to be first as a matter of mathematics.
    Here is the US as a whole:

    With that in mind I checked on the EU PPP (GDP per capita) figures, being a member of the EU gets the average person about the same PPP as Mississippi at $36,900 in 2014. The PPP of Mississippi represents a similar over simplified breakdown of the average as Germany to the Greeks.

    Country by PPP (2015)

    So when you make the remark that “The Americans have accepted the fact that the under performing members of the Union must be ‘Supported’ by the engines of progress.” We make no such acceptance. Our economic engines are not based on cronyism of socialist government favored businesses or industries as liberals in our country would have you believe. Our people are free to leave an area where the local conditions don’t favor them. American society is built upon mobility very much unlike the EU, so when you compare the EU to the US, you are doing an apples versus oranges comparison.

    Detroit and Baltimore are rat holes because liberal politicians attempted to copy the EU socialist model. As soon as they imposed high taxes and regulations, businesses moved out or went out of business leaving the population destitute. You in the UK would do well to learn from that huge mistake. Get out! Get out now!

  25. dscott says:

    Luke ‘Ming’ Flanagan, what happens in Los Vegas stays in Los Vegas.

    You do realize the mafia wants you to economically prosper as they get a cut (percentage) of your income? So as your income goes up, their cut increases. In the EU, they don’t want you to prosper, they just want to tell you what to do. It’s a nuance, but an important one between the mafia and the EU.