New diesel and petrol vehicles to be banned from 2040 in UK 

Posted: July 26, 2017 by oldbrew in Emissions, pollution, Travel

If cars are to be electric only there will obviously be a massive increase in demand on the National Grid as a result – and that’s only one of a number of major issues arising from such a policy, such as cost and practicality. Whether hybrids would still be allowed is not clear.

New diesel and petrol cars and vans will be banned in the UK from 2040 in a bid to tackle air pollution, the government is set to announce.

Ministers will also unveil a £255m fund to help councils tackle emissions from diesel vehicles, as part of a £3bn package of spending on air quality, reports BBC News.

The government will later publish its clean air strategy, favouring electric cars, before a High Court deadline.

Campaigners said the measures were promising, but more detail was needed. They had wanted government-funded and mandated clean air zones, with charges for the most-polluting vehicles to enter areas with high pollution, included in the plans.

After a protracted legal battle, the government was ordered by the courts to produce new plans to tackle illegal levels of harmful pollutant nitrogen dioxide. Judges agreed with environmental campaigners that previous plans were insufficient to meet EU pollution limits.

Continued here.
– – –
UK plan for tackling roadside nitrogen dioxide concentrations
An overview
July 2017

  1. tallbloke says:

    They are softening us up for an announcement on higher taxation for diesel vehicles.

  2. oldbrew says:

    Let’s see if hybrids are still allowed, and if so what type of hybrids. Norway plans to allow only electric or plug-in hybrid cars from 2025.

  3. Anoneumouse says:

    And what about all those households who only have off on street parking? Are we going to be allowed to scatter our charging extension leads accross the pavement

  4. Anoneumouse says:

    that should read ‘on street’ parking

  5. oldbrew says:

    Not forgetting ‘the public sector funding challenge presented by decreased fuel revenues’ as this report on the similar French plan says.
    – – –
    ‘Are we going to be allowed to scatter our charging extension leads across the pavement’

    Not if you’re in a multi-storey apartment block 😐

  6. I’ll be stocking up on fossil fuel so that I can use my generator to charge my electric vehicle at home.

  7. tallbloke says:

    Anoneumouse: Imagine the local disputes as people awake to find their extension lead plugged into the neighbour’s battery bank…
    The number of electrocutions on rainy mornings…
    The melting local substations that they didn’t get around to upgrading yet…

    Where’s all the copper going to come from?
    Where’s all the leccy going to come from?

    I think I’ll beat the traffic jams caused by dead battery packs by piloting my flying pig to work.

  8. Bitter&twisted says:

    I’ll have to drive my 1962 Jaguar Mark2 a bit more to help keep CO2 levels rising.
    Will need some help with the fuel bill though!
    Maybe The Fordprefect would like to help?

  9. renewableguy says:

    tallbloke says:
    July 26, 2017 at 11:06 am
    Anoneumouse: Imagine the local disputes as people awake to find their extension lead plugged into the neighbour’s battery bank…
    The number of electrocutions on rainy mornings…
    The melting local substations that they didn’t get around to upgrading yet…

    Where’s all the copper going to come from?
    Where’s all the leccy going to come from?

    I think I’ll beat the traffic jams caused by dead battery packs by piloting my flying pig to work.

    In my electric car experience, I have never been stranded by a dead battery. Plugging in everyy night, I start out with a full batteryy every day. I don’t spend the time going to a petrol station.

  10. Ross Poldark says:

    My uncle has a country place, that no-one knows about
    He says it used to be a farm, before the Motor Law
    Sundays I elude the ‘Eyes’, and hop the Turbine Freight
    To far outside the Wire, where my white-haired uncle waits

    Jump to the ground
    As the Turbo slows to cross the borderline
    Run like the wind
    As excitement shivers up and down my spine
    Down in his barn
    My uncle preserved for me an old machine –
    For fifty-odd years
    To keep it as new has been his dearest dream

    I strip away the old debris, that hides a shining car
    A brilliant red Barchetta, from a better, vanished time
    Fire up the willing engine, responding with a roar!
    Tires spitting gravel, I commit my weekly crime…

    Wind in my hair –
    Shifting and drifting –
    Mechanical music
    Adrenalin surge –

    Well-weathered leather
    Hot metal and oil
    The scented country air
    Sunlight on chrome
    The blur of the landscape
    Every nerve aware

    Suddenly ahead of me, across the mountainside
    A gleaming alloy air-car shoots towards me, two lanes wide
    I spin around with shrieking tires, to run the deadly race
    Go screaming through the valley as another joins the chase

    Drive like the wind
    Straining the limits of machine and man
    Laughing out loud
    With fear and hope, I’ve got a desperate plan
    At the one-lane bridge
    I leave the giants stranded
    At the riverside
    Race back to the farm
    To dream with my uncle
    At the fireside…

  11. renewableguy says:

    For starters, electric cars get the pollution to the source of the utilityy instead of locally. Eventually fossil fuels will be replaced b 100% renewable energy.

  12. pochas94 says:

    All of this for imaginary benefits.

  13. oldbrew says:

    DT report: Diesel and petrol car ban unravels as National Grid ‘would struggle to cope’ with electric revolution unless 10 new power stations built

    Thumbs down for renewables there. But the DT report does say: ‘The Government will also commit to banning the sale of all new diesel and petrol cars by 2040 in a bid to encourage people to switch to electric and hybrid vehicles.’

    The Guardian says hybrids will also be banned in 2040.
    ‘The government warned that the move, which will also take in hybrid vehicles, was needed because of the unnecessary and avoidable impact that poor air quality was having on people’s health.’
    – – –
    So switching to a hybrid only works up to 2040, or so it seems.
    After 2030 or so the secondhand value of fuel-powered cars is going to sink like a stone if this plan sticks.

  14. renewableguy says:

    The House version of a landmark 100% clean energy bill rolled out earlier this year has been introduced by U.S. Reps. Jared Polis, D-Colo.; Raul Grijalva, D-Ariz.; Jared Huffman, D-Calif.; and Pramila Jayapal, D-Wash.

    renewables-2 100% Clean Energy Bills Now Proposed In Both House And Senate
    According to the lawmakers, the “100 by ‘50 Act,” calling for 100% clean energy by 2050, is the first bill introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives that fully envisions a complete transition off of fossil fuels for the U.S.

  15. Saighdear says:

    … and the Tourists ? – no longer welcome on our roads? – seen as such a welcome injection of Cash to our economy. Those of us without our edz upoor arzes – maintaining our Internal combustion engine cars – ie not living in Eutopia, or You-topia, or wherever else. Makes me SOOOOO ANGRY to hear and have to LISTEN to this nonsense from our elected offiicials – I didn’t VOTE for this a few weeks ago, NOR do I want to hear from those Blobbz in the Media interviews. I don’t live nor want to live in the City. WHY? so m uch to see and do outside of it. Closer to food supplies, etc and therefore does not ADD-to OR CREATE any such Conjestion associated problems. .
    Huh, If it is SUCH a problem, WHY NOT STOP NOW. No more, PERIOD – its bad for you. – so they say, the science is settled ….. haha! Like tobacco, alcohol etc – BUT it is a large source of revenue for the Democratic Spenders of our money.
    Simple: LIMIT the size and Power of engines – thereby emissions and brake dust/ rubber and noise. TAKE YOUR TIME – Go Your O Pean – ie Manjana Land …… Lunchtime rant
    I have a job to do and cannot afford to wait to recharge my batteries. I learnt something useful in school. – Energy can be neither created nor destroyed, and the transfer of concentrated energy can meantime only be done with Hydrocarbons – If you need to burn 100hp per hour = 4 gals fuel – that’s what you do. refuelling that machine takes MINUTES – for a day’s work. Try the equivalent of that with electrics. Oh aye – big demand, so plug-in to the Nation’s Fridges, etc. Man GET A GRIP, Ppl.
    2nd Rant over

  16. pochas94 says:

    I’d like to see an analysis of the changes expected in the power supply mix; new plants, what type, what fuels, impacts on cash flows to the utilities. I’ll bet there isn’t any. Or if there is, it’s not for public release, because the utilities are salivating over their through – the – roof profit margins.

  17. tallbloke says:

  18. tallbloke says:

    Great interview at JHB’s link with Tony Frew.

  19. Simply, it won’t work.

    I would be highly surprised if the national public transport was 100% Electric by 2040 without the power grid falling over let alone private vehicles.

    Electrification of ALL rail lines, buses, council vehicles, ambulances, fire engines, police cars.

    Can you imagine the law suites for individuals getting arrested and being thrown in the back of a diesel police car, or being taken to hospital in a diesel ambulance!

    Can you see what will happen to Taxi licencing and the fallout from millions of drivers having their living removed because they can’t afford to replace their cars without subsidy.

    National coach companies, HGV’s!! Targeting Joe Public will cause uproar.

    This is one of those lets make a policy for the future that we will never employ but it will keep a section of society happy.

    22 years, not a hope in hell.

  20. dennisambler says:

    They recently backtracked on rail electrification when reality set in. The same will happen here, but loadsa money will be computer generated to feed the green monster in the meantime.

  21. Anoneumouse says:

    Who can imagine the electric main battle tank

  22. tallbloke says:

    Energy density

  23. tallbloke says:

    Lord B: This is one of those lets make a policy for the future that we will never employ but it will keep a section of society happy.

    I suspect it’s to keep Juncker & co from imposing fines for air pollution and CO2 emissions until we’re out.

  24. Anoneumouse says:

    At end of March 2016 there was 36.7 million Vehicles licensed for use on roads in Great Britain. If they were all electric and all plugged in to the national grid every night what would the capacity of the national grid have to be?

  25. TB,

    It’s the Green lawyers employed by terrorist organisations like Greenpeace that will have been sharpening their quills…

  26. oldbrew says:

    This government only has a shelf life of up to 5 years, so 18 years short of the target date they claim to be setting for the electric car takeover.
    – – –
    Date: 26/07/17 The Daily Telegraph

    According to a National Grid report, peak demand for electricity will add around 30 gigawatts to the current peak of 61GW – an increase of 50 per cent.

    The extra electricity needed will be the equivalent of almost 10 times the total power output of the new Hinckley Point C nuclear power station being built in Somerset.

    National Grid predicts Britain will become increasingly reliant on imported electricity, which will rise from around 10 per cent of total electricity to around one third, raising questions about energy security.

    UK energy policy generally has been unravelling since the Climate Change Act came into force in 2008.

  27. E.M.Smith says:

    I expect that it is only new vehicles that must be electric. Thus old vehicles will be much more prized. This will also buy the politicians out of the need to double the grid size…

    Folks in flats will charge while shopping or at charging stations. In California, the only chargers I’ve seen are in workplace parking lots or at Whole Foods & Walmart. As their use increases, more spaces willget the chargers. This actually can work, as most trips are to shopping or work.

    Also expect “commercial and government” vehicles to get a pass. Don’t expect electric garbage trucks any time soon. The thing would be all batteries…

  28. oldbrew says:

    People’s city car 2040?

  29. A C Osborn says:

    They have nobody in Government who can do Engineering, Maths, Accounting or understand physical reality.
    For instance as EVs take up to 30 minutes to charge, compared to 3 minutes to fill an FF tank they Garage forecourts will 10 times as many chargers as well as some pumps for older vehicles.
    That means a Forecourt 10 times the size of the current ones.
    Where are they going to get the 80-85% Tax curently on the price of FFs, where will they get the Tax Contributions made by the FF industry?
    They are going to make an aweful lot of people unemployed, Mechanics and those in the FF industry.

    This is a knee jerk reaction and I am absolutley amazed that Chris Grayling has had his name associated with this.

  30. tom0mason says:

    The Future's Bright, The Future's...


  31. The Badger says:

    14th December 2043 and a major accident on the M5 at 6pm closes all lanes both southbound and northbound. Outside temperature is -8C. Tailbacks reach 10 miles. Drivers stuck in electric cars overnight all run down batteries trying to avoid freezing to death. 12 people die of hypothermia. 8,000 cars with flat batteries clog motorway for 6 days until charging trucks with 28kW DIESEL generators get them going again.

  32. michael hart says:

    Let’s not forget, California made a law mandating “zero-emission” vehicles in ~1990. It was supposed to have taken effect a decade or two ago.
    How are they doing?

  33. michael hart says:

    “A C Osborn says:
    July 26, 2017 at 8:08 pm
    They have nobody in Government who can do Engineering, Maths, Accounting or understand physical reality.”

    Yup. That lies at the root of the UK problem.

    But how to solve it? I suggest a start by defunding all, yes all, university courses that cannot demonstrate a basic level of mathematical competence of enrolled students. Every single one.

  34. oldbrew says:

    Telegraph reader asks: will my house have to be re-wired for electric car charging?
    – – –
    Plans to end the sale of all diesel and petrol cars by 2040 started to unravel today as it emerged 10,000 wind turbines or 10 nuclear power stations would need to be built to power their electric replacements.

    National Grid, which manages the UK’s power supply, said in a report that peak demand for electricity could increase by 50 per cent if and when the nation switches to electric vehicles.

  35. tallbloke says:

  36. oldbrew says:

    A report earlier this year by the think tank Green Alliance warned that as few as six vehicles charging at the same time, close to each other, could cause localised power drops.

  37. oldbrew says:

    Euan Mearns looks in depth at some EV stats.

    CO2 Intensity of Electric Cars

  38. oldbrew says:

    Los Angeles to have fully electric bus fleet by 2030
    July 28, 2017

    Authorities in the US metropolis said the project, which involves the purchase of 2,200 vehicles, would cost some $1 billion over the next ten years.

    Read more at:

    “Everybody will be looking to L.A. as the chance to learn, for better or worse, what the implications are”
    – – –
    London used to have over 1800 electrically powered buses, but not quite the same type…

    Hilly San Francisco operates 300 trolleybuses, ‘the second-largest such system in the Western Hemisphere, after that of Mexico City.’

  39. tallbloke says:

    Leeds used to have an electric trolley bus system and trams sharing the same power lines too.

  40. oldbrew says:

    A plan for a new Leeds trolley bus system was refused last year.

  41. oldbrew says:

    Court paves way for Stuttgart diesel ban
    Published: 12:36 am, Saturday, 29 July 2017

    Diesel cars that fail to meet the latest emissions standards could be banned from the southern German city of Stuttgart on days when pollution is heavy, a court has ruled.

  42. Pablo says:

    How about LPG conversion kits for petrol engines and the scrapyard for diesels?

  43. oldbrew says:

    Date: 29/07/17 The Daily Telegraph

    “Against the backdrop of the diesel scandal, illegal agreements amount to a nuclear meltdown for the German car industry’s credibility.”
    . . .
    Fritz Esser, a leading columnist, compared the crisis facing the industry to the collapse of coal mining in Germany, which saw the number of miners drop from 350,000 in 1980 to just 28,000 today.

    “It is possible the car industry could go the same way. That one day we will look back to 2017 and say, that was the year it changed,” he wrote.

  44. zemran says:

    First we have to build millions of new houses because there are still far too many people living in flats without the ability to charge an ev. Then we need to work out how to recharge all these evs given that the current infrastructure is not ready. Then we need to invent batteries that can be charged in less time because despite the ridiculous claims about recharge times if you want your unbelievably expensive battery to actually last you have to charge it slowly. In a couple of hundred years we may be ready to think about it but for now it is just a lovely dream.

  45. zemran says:

    Do not forget the milk floats 😀

  46. oldbrew says:

    Electric vehicle energy demand fears dismissed

    Demand is likely to go up by lower amount says former Npower chief

  47. tallbloke says:

    Pablo: LPG kits exist for diesel engines too. Best solution by far. Frack our own UK gas and get rich while we drive clean.

  48. oldbrew says:

    ‘UK’s largest’ CNG filling site gets go-ahead

    The site, which it is said will be the largest CNG filling station in the UK, has now been granted planning permission and will be located near to Junction 28 on the M6 at Leyland, Lancashire.

    Said to be the first high-pressure connected, public-access CNG station in the country, it will be capable of refuelling more than 500 HGVs a day, says CNG Fuels – or as much as 3,500kg of CNG per hour. As well as standard CNG, the filling station will offer 100 per cent renewable biomethane (Bio-CNG).

    Its biggest customer will be Waitrose/John Lewis.

    Philip Fjeld, CEO of CNG Fuels, added: “High pressure carbon-fibre fuel tanks demolish the ‘range anxiety’ concerns that have made many hauliers reluctant to move away from diesel to CNG.

    “Renewable biomethane is far cheaper and cleaner than diesel, and, with a range of up to 500 miles, it is a game-changer for road transport operators.”

  49. oldbrew says:

    Motorways may be covered by ‘tunnels’ in bid to cut pollution

    But by the time it’s done there won’t be any pollution anyway 😉

  50. Saighdear says:

    @ oldbrew, aye sure – tunnels – consider the physics of tunnel ventilation. Next thing: IMAGINE some occasion when “everybody ” wants to go somewhere….. That WILL HAVE to be to NOWHERE – ‘cos the sudden demand on generation on a Still Day, etc either hot or cold will have a large enough demand on Combustible E Generation. – screaming bairnies in the back seat . Victor Meldrew, you showed us and we only laughed – such is the level of modern education.

  51. oldbrew says:

    How realistic are plans to ban new gas and diesel cars?
    August 3, 2017