Neptune, Uranus, Pluto and the Grand Synod

Posted: March 4, 2020 by oldbrew in Cycles, data, Phi, solar system dynamics
Tags: , ,

Image credit:

The aim here is to show how the synodic periods and orbits of these three planets align with the so-called Grand Synod, a period of about 4628 years which has 27 Uranus-Neptune conjunctions and almost 233 Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions. Its half-period is sometimes referred to as the Hallstatt cycle (2314 years +/- a variable margin).

1. U-N ‘long period’
1420 Uranus-Neptune conjunctions = 1477 Neptune orbits
(for calculations, see Footnote)
1477 – 1420 = 57
Uranus-Neptune 360 degrees return is 1420/57 U-N = 24.91228 U-N long period = 4270.119 years

2. GS : U-N ratio
Grand Synod = 27 U-N = 4627.967 years (= ~233 Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions)
27 / 24.91228 = 1.0838028
1.0838028 * 12 = 13.005633
Therefore the ratio of 4627.967:4270.119 is almost exactly 13:12 (> 99.956% true)

3. Orbital data
Turning to the orbit periods nearest to the Grand Synod:
28 Neptune = 4614.157y
55 Uranus = 4620.927y
(Data: )

4. Factor of 12
These periods fall slightly short of the 27 U-N Grand Synod (~4628 years).
However, multiplying by 12 and adding one orbit to each, gives:
28*12,+1 (337) Neptune = 55534.67y
55*12,+1 (661) Uranus = 55535.14y
27*12 (661 – 337) U-N = 55535.61y

Now the numbers match to within a year +/- 55535 years.
Also, the period is 12 Grand Synods (12*4628 = 55536y), or 13 U-N ‘long’ periods.

5. Pluto data
Pluto’s orbit period is 247.92065 years.
55535 / 247.92065y = 224.003
So 224 Pluto orbits also equate to 12 Grand Synods.

Therefore, a U-N-P synodic chart can be created for that period of time.

6. Neptune:Pluto orbits
Neptune has one more orbit in the period than an exact 3:2 ratio with Pluto – a planetary resonance.
224 P = 112*2
337 N = 112*3, +1
113 N-P = 112, +1

7. Phi factor
Uranus and Neptune both have one more orbit than this ratio:
660:336 = (55*12):(21*16)
55/21 = Phi²
12/16 = 3/4
Therefore the U:N ratio is almost (3/4 of Phi²):1

The U-N-P chart should repeat every 12 Grand synods i.e. every 55,535 years or so.
– – –
360 / Neptune orbit (164.79132) = 2.184581
2.184581 * U-N conjunction (171.40619) = 374.4507
374.4507 – 360 = 14.4507

Obtain nearest multiple of 360 degrees:
1420 * 14.4507 = 20519.9994
20520 / 360 = 57
1420 + 57 = 1477
1420 U-N = 1477 Neptune orbits
1420 + 1477 = 2897 Uranus orbits

  1. oldbrew says:

    A simplified version:
    4272 * 13 = 4628 * 12 = 55536
    4272 = 89 * 4 * 12
    4628 = 89 * 4 * 13
    55536 = 89 * 4 * 12 * 13

    13 is the difference between the number of U-N conjunctions (324) and the number of Neptune orbits (337) in the period – see synodics chart.
    – – –
    Scafetta et al paper: 4. Modeling the Hallstatt Oscillation in 14C Cosmogenic Isotope Records

    The Bray–Hallstatt cycle (2310±304 yr) is the longest oscillation found both in 14C and 10Be cosmogenic isotope records throughout the Holocene (e.g.: McCracken et al., 2013; Sonett, 1984; Vasiliev and Dergachev, 2002; Scafetta et al., 2016) and in a large number of climate records such as glacial moraines, δ18O records from ice cores, and temperature-sensitive tree ring widths and others (e.g.: Bray, 1968; O’Brien et al., 1995; Pestiaux et al., 1988; Vasiliev and Dergachev, 2002). This oscillation is not seen in Neff et al. (2001, Figure 5,) just because their records are too short.

    The hypothesis to be tested is whether this oscillation is predicted by the (1,−3,1,1) orbital invariant inequality. [bold added]
    – – –
    55536 / 24 = 2314 (4628 / 2) i.e. half the Grand Synod, as a mean value.
    That looks a lot like 2310 (+/- 304).

    If it’s ‘the longest oscillation’ maybe that’s because these are the furthest significant planets from the Sun.

  2. P.A.Semi says:

    Another phi in the Design, interesting and nice…

    I (wrongly) thought Phi is 0.618 rather than 1.618… (When I verify, it’s phi = φ = 1.61803398874989, Φ = Phi = -0.618033988749895 … Sorry for my just petty formalism… I sometimes use “Golden Angle”, which is 360 – (0.618…* 360) = 137.507764050038 ° )

    Of interest:
    phi^2 = phi+1

    Also, you write 4272*13, but above is 4270.119 …
    Rounding to whole numbers of Earth-years (or what is there 89 for?) put’s Earth into the equations implicitly, but then there should be intercalary items to distribute the rounding error… (Does it look same, if you counted the period in Jupiter-years instead? Or choosing any base time interval that does not depend on Earth orbit…)

    I was trying to figure out, how do you mean it in section 4 with “13 U-N ‘long’ periods”, since there is some 24 years missing… Now I see it rounded and it looks more obvious, but why to round it to whole Earth-years ?

  3. P.A.Semi says:

    As I look at my text as posted, phi2 should be phi^2 or phi square… (It does not support ‹sup› tag…?)
    phi * phi = phi + 1

  4. oldbrew says:

    Use Alt key + 253 on a keyboard for ‘squared’.

    337 Neptune / 13 = 4271.898 years, so it seems the 4270.119 is a bit inaccurate [no – see below].

    The rounding was a model for demonstration purposes, to illustrate the 12:13 concept hopefully.
    – – –
    Update: 4270.119 is the beat period of U-N and N, so both numbers are correct. As they’re so close it’s not worth altering the post, but the ~4272 number is the more relevant one really.

  5. oldbrew says:

    PA Semi: Rounding to whole numbers of Earth-years (or what is there 89 for?) put’s Earth into the equations implicitly

    What we can say is:
    89 / J-N = 6.9624846
    89 / S-U = 1.9630167
    6.9624846 – 1.9630167 = 4.9998319

    So 5 beats per 89 years for those conjunction pairs.
    5 and 89 are Fibonacci numbers.

  6. P.A.Semi says:

    oldbrew says: March 6, 2020 at 9:31 am
    So 5 beats per 89 years for those conjunction pairs.

    But the word “years” implies Earth in the equations…

    If you count it in JupiterYears or MercuryYears or EarthDays, would it look differently ? (The ratios one/second are same regardless of used unit… Perhaps 89 / 5 would pop-up in some power of phi…? I’m not sure… )

    Using “year” unit is a useful simplification. But seeing “phi” or these “fibonacci numbers” in one unit of time and not in another is something else, than seeing it in a unit-less ratio… (if it pertains to Earth, it’s vindicated, otherwise not…)

    For ex. above in “7. phi factor”, the ratio is unit-less (or there is adding 1 orbit of the constituents of that pair) and it is there, if expressed in any units of time… That’s real and nice. If it requires expressing those numbers in Earth-years, than it is just a random coincidence, or an Intelligent Design to measure other planets with Earth as a base measure…

    89 is ugly large prime number. If you tollerate 1% difference, any two neighbour planets would probably match some multiple of 89…? (But 4.9998319 is far below 1% difference, so there may be something in it…)

    Once in 2006 I found ratio of neighbour planets to be some multiple of 27, if you tolerate some 2-3% difference, which seemed negligible, but it is not… But 27 is at-least a nice number as a cube of 3… 3 ³ … (neighbour ratios of Mercury,Venus,Earth,Mars,Ceres,Jupiter,Saturn,Uranus,Neptune are 69,44,51,68,68,67,77,53 divided by 27 with differences 0.99951,0.99748,0.99570,0.97093,1.02426,1.00030,1.00106,0.99910). Probably selecting other asteroid-belt place instead of Ceres would work better, that is only place where it has more than 0.5% difference there-and-back… This implies a missing planet between Mars and Jupiter, whose remnants are the asteroids… But observing real resonance patterns does not show these ratios, and there seems to be no logic (like third power or fibbonaci etc) in those 27-ratios, so it is probably just a nice coincidence and probably a blunder…

    (About Alt+253, thank you, but it does not work in my country, there is different character… But I could use charmap.exe, if I know it’s a character ² and not ­‹sup›2‹/sup› … This character ² is missing in East-Europe 8-bit charset and cannot be entered by Alt+number, since Alt+253 makes ř and Alt+0253 makes ý… For example those brackets ‹ › are Alt+0139 and Alt+0155, characters 0x8b and 0x9b… If you want to enter any foreign text, you can use charmap and click the letters by mouse. Charmap is optionally installed in winxp, most probably it is built-in in newer versions also, or does it need to be selected in some system dialog, which I do not remember any more…?)

  7. oldbrew says:

    But the word “years” implies Earth in the equations…

    Some unit of time has to be used of course, but the whole number of Earth years adds a bit of interest. 2* 89 = 178 which is close to the Jose cycle of 178.785 years, or 9 Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions.

    Or 266 (19*14) J-N = 75 (19*4, -1) S-U in just over 19 Jose cycles (19*9 J-S)
    266:76 = 7:2 and 7-2 = 5
    – – –
    Re Alt 253 I wasn’t very clear: keep Alt key depressed and type 253 (or 252 for cubed).

  8. P.A.Semi says:

    The EarthYears probably work, because there is almost-12-years from Earth to Jupiter, and almost-30-years to Saturn, and almost-20-years to Jupiter-Saturn synods, and almost-84-years to Uranus and almost-165-years to Neptune and almost-178-years to Neptune-Uranus synods. The small planets probably formed in place of average resonance with the larger ones ? But otherwise expressing ratios in EarthYears is geo-centric thinking…

    In my ratios of 27, there is quite common 67 / 27 or 68 / 27, which is close (not so much) to (π / 2) ² ?

    Then the Uranus has been moved little further away for better large-planet resonance, because (Neptune / Saturn) = (64 / 27) ² and there is larger step from Saturn to Uranus and then smaller step from Uranus to Neptune, but both are better synchronized to Jupiter 7:1 and 14:1, and Earth+Venus are a resonance group placed there artificially wih quite different ratios… (The smaller the numbers in the ratio, the better is that resonance…)

    For example, Saturn / Jupiter = 2.4822272 is close to (phi-1) * 4 = 2.472135955, ratio is 1.0040820, which is not very exact but close…
    ( phi-1 is that smaller part 0.618…, another root of that equation… while searching for others, I noticed another property of phi = 1 / (phi-1)² – 1 , it’s probably just re-arranged that phi² – 1 …)

    I know how to use alt-keys. It’s sometimes specific with east-europe charset and this one does not work, there is a different char… You probably use Win1252 charset, I use Win1250, some chars in the high part differ…
    Now I’m sometimes writing in some Czech forum from Win7 in VirtualBox, because I do not trust new Firefox enough and also it can be saved during power dropout, and Microsoft has stolen from me all the keys above digits and right beside letters, because there does not work switching to english keyboard other than by mouse, which is too complicated, and Alt+Shift just does not work. Those thief bastards. So with Czech keyboard, if I need to enter chars like ‘ or # or [] for bb-code, I remember their ascii-codes, convert to decimal, and use alt+0number. I remember significant part of ascii-code, just converting to decimal numbers takes some math… (That’s 30 years of practice in programming)

    When entering hebrew, greek or russian text (I’m not a jew, but as a biblical expert, I self-learned hebrew also… I can watch tv news in 4 languages and can read texts more or less in 5 other), it is possible to use charmap and double-click each letter with mouse…

    Anyway it’s strange, since ² is not 252 in Win1252 charset either, it’s 0xb2 = 178 …? To enter ascii-code, start number with 0, so alt+0253 is different from alt+253… But it’s different in east-europe and western charsets…?

    Now when using charmap, it displays hint in statusbar on right bottom, and with my czech keyboard on WinXp, ² is alt+0178 and ³ is alt+0179 …

  9. oldbrew says:

    I can use alt+0178 but it overwrites the web page with a new tab and puts the ² in the address bar.
    – – –
    Remember that the 4272y and 4628y (ratio of 12:13) are actual periods of interest and both are divisible by 89 with a difference between them of 89*4, so it’s not just an arbitrary number choice.

  10. Dohn says:


    I just discovered this website due to searches I performed to look for info about how solar activities and planetary configurations affect things around us. And have been scrolling through here within the website since. I don’t possess advance knowledge of physics and mathematics though.

    However, I would like to know more about the fundamentals behind. Starting with the synodic charts you shared here and at some other comments or posts by you.
    What do I have to read to understand how this work and the mathematics behind. What with the ratio, fib, phi, and resonance?

    It’d be great if you shed some guidance on how to gain a foothold of these info.

  11. oldbrew says:

    Dohn – that’s a big question.

    You could start here…

    The synodic period is the time taken for a faster orbiting planet to ‘catch up’ with a slower one between alignments with the sun. Put another way, the time period when the difference between the number of orbits of two planetary bodies is exactly one. The formula is (P1*P2)/(P1-P2) where P2 is the shorter of the two orbit periods.

    Orbit data:

    Try putting ‘Why Phi’ in *search this site* which is in the sidebar on the left, near the top. A lot of links to Talkshop posts will appear.

  12. Dohn says:

    Hey oldbrew,

    Thanks a lot! I will start from there.
    This website is full of treasure I got too excited I almost can’t sleep.

    *Only after I sent out a comment here that I realised I’ve bookmarked this site to keep in view a year ago. I know very less but knew lesser, only to be brought back here, again. This time though, at least I can recognise from bits here and there that these are the info and knowledge I hope to pick up. Forgive me ignorance.

    This comment only serve to express my gratitude to you, everyone that contributes greatly, as well as the platform only. Hence it is understood if this comment is not approved as it’s out of the topic.

    Another thing piques my interest are chains of comments posted by Paul Vaughan that uses alternate spellings and series of figures. What are those, how should I decipher those what the mathematical figures indicate?

  13. oldbrew says:

    Dohn – re: I don’t possess advanced knowledge of physics and mathematics though.

    Neither do I, but a calculator is handy 🙂
    – – –
    Another thing piques my interest are chains of comments posted by Paul Vaughan that uses alternate spellings and series of figures. What are those, how should I decipher those what the mathematical figures indicate?

    The author would be the best person to answer that one!

  14. Dohn says:


    Yes I have been going back to the wiki or maths pages to try to understand (many times I have to look at the same topics explained differently to get better understanding).

    Btw, what’s all these solar & planetary knowledge has to do with harmonics, ratios, prime numbers, and fib?

  15. oldbrew says:

    Dohn – that’s what we all have to try to understand. The most obvious evidence for harmonics is that our planetary system is mostly consistent and predictable, as far as the larger bodies are concerned.

    There’s also evidence that some other star systems with planets have recognisable synodic frequencies too.

  16. Paul Vaughan says:

    Have F(UN) Cure Ring Sci11UNs Dohn

    Western censorship methods fool most people, but not everyone. It’s up to each individual to find their way through floods of bland misinformation to taste a few spicy pinches of divine truth. Debate is pointless. Because of how western censorship methods work (using media personality social dominance tricks) it’s most effective to strictly boycott sites that push “debate”, which just means volunteering to be savagely bullied. The best art is layered for many possible interpretations such that different people perceive different depth and strikingly different content — i.e. some will perceive a radically different message than others because of their different set of biases and assumptions ….and hilarious misinterpretations.

    Art helps expedite (without guaranteeing) divine perception. God’s in charge of the timeline, metering the revelation rate and the ability to express the thought-injections that do not come about through reasoning but rather flash-awareness of nothing-complicated but rather just sudden dawn of real simplicity. Formal mainstream Sci11UNs — in painful contrast to the simple beauty God reveals in spontaneous bursts — is a savage and tortured delay method (a method of dull and savage administrators whose souls have been sterilized of creative art by the soul-crushing nature of their institutional prisons). Using sci11UNs the priests of the Temples of Syrinx can delay the truth MANY centuries. You don’t have to choose to be a victim of such SatUNuke savages.

    The more you are able to live your life in peaceful harmony with other beautiful elements of nature, the more God is able to inject truly simple revelations into your mind. SatUN is ALWAYS aggressively and savagely at work in our world to disrupt beautifully enlightened living. SatUN wants all truth kept secret and all citizens locked down for human rights abuse. God is more generous and rations out the truth in pieceful treats to those able to find a way to live in harmony despite the interference by SatUN.

    That is all I can tell you.

  17. Dohn says:

    Hey Paul,
    Thanks for your reply =)
    This website surely has helped opened up a few doors for my exploration.

    I’ve got to admit this is surely a lonely journey in real life (at least that’s what I experience so far).
    Share even a small dose of it to people around you, never been so quick you see them thinking you’re crazy.

    The process/journey come with the fun times finding out new things and the hard times comprehending the technicalities behind (I believe nature favours simplicity but that doesn’t mean it’s easy). We always want things real fast, the intensity built up when we don’t get it. Interestingly, revelations, new insights, or the “pieceful treats” come around those time, when we least expect it.

    Again, great to get hear you sharing.
    Stay safe 😉

  18. Paul Vaughan says:

    Dohn, it’s never lonely. There are so many good people in my neighborhood. It’s always joy ….and IT’s AIweis 4 joy too review:


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