Scientists discovered a river longer than Thames beneath the Antarctic ice sheet

Posted: November 5, 2022 by oldbrew in climate, research, Uncertainty
Tags:

Antarctica’s George VI Ice Shelf [image credit: CIRES Colorado Univ.]


Interesting, but too many uncertainties at this time to reach any firm conclusions. The river system is ‘beneath kilometers of thick ice’.
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Scientists at Imperial College London, the University of Waterloo, Canada, Universiti Malaysia Terengganu, and Newcastle University have discovered an unexpected river under the Antarctic ice sheet, says Tech Explorist.

The discovery of this 460km-long river shows the ice sheet’s base has more active water flow than previously thought, which could make it more susceptible to changes in climate.

The river is believed to affect the flow and melting of ice, contributing to the acceleration of ice loss during climate warming.

Co-author Professor Martin Siegert, from the Grantham Institute at Imperial College London, said: “When we first discovered lakes beneath the Antarctic ice a couple of decades ago, we thought they were isolated from each other. Now we are starting to understand there are whole systems interconnected by vast river networks, just as they might be if there weren’t thousands of meters of ice on top of them.

“The region where this study is based holds enough ice to raise the sea level globally by 4.3m. How much of this ice melts and how quickly it is linked to how slippery the base of the ice is. The newly discovered river system could strongly influence this process.”

However, because the summers are still too cold, there is not enough surface melting to form moulins in Antarctica. This led to the assumption that there was not a lot of water present at the foot of the Antarctic ice sheets.

The latest finding refutes this theory by demonstrating enough water from basal melt alone to form significant river systems beneath kilometers of thick ice.

Scientists made this discovery through a combination of airborne radar surveys. The surveys allowed them to look beneath the ice and modeling of the ice sheet hydrology.

The crew concentrated on a relatively unexplored and inaccessible region that contains ice from both the East and West Antarctic Ice Sheets and extends to the Weddell Sea.

Full article here.
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Study here.

Comments
  1. This was written:
    The discovery of this 460km-long river shows the ice sheet’s base has more active water flow than previously thought, which could make it more susceptible to changes in climate.

    We just came out of a time that “so called” “climate scientists” knew 97% of all climate knowledge. Now, every new thing they learn is added under the 97% umbrella and used to add to their “climate alarmism”. If they just found a river under ice it is because some ice thaws every year and the ice grows because there is more snowfall than thawing, not because the sun never melted ice in summer before.

    Ice ages are and were colder because ice was reflecting and ALSO BECAUSE THE ICE SPREAD SOUTH FROM THE ARCTIC DID THAW EVERY YEAR, it just took time to thaw and thin the ice sheets, warming into warm periods happen rapidly because the great ice sheets had thinned.

  2. The Antarctic and Arctic ice survives for many years because every-time it get depleted, ice quits getting pushed into the water warmed by tropical currents which then removes sea ice and turns on the polar ice machines, which are powered by tropical energy carried into polar regions by ocean currents, that are blocked from flowing around the equator by land. Warmer times rebuild polar sequestered ice and then more ice flows into the warm currents and causes colder times until the ice is depleted again. This is the reason there have always been alternating warmer and colder periods. The thermostat setting is the temperature sea ice freezes and thaws and the control for the polar ice machines is the sea ice.
    Climate Science is not any kind of Science. Ice Ages are caused by more ice which is caused by more snowfall in warmer times when polar oceans are frozen.
    They use a static ice balance theory that does not include ice. They have a Static Equilibrium in a static theory that can never produce a model to properly match a dynamic system.

  3. catweazle666 says:

    “The river is believed to affect the flow and melting of ice, contributing to the acceleration of ice loss during climate warming.”

    Given that the temperature of any point of the surface of Antarctica rarely approaches – far less exceeds – the melting point of ice, I find that unlikely!

  4. There is research that has shown that during the long cold ice ages, the Arctic Ocean filled with fresh water and ice. The weight of the great ice masses around and in the Arctic depressed the land which caused it to be downhill into the Arctic, the Great Ice Sheets did Thaw and Thin during the long cold, but the melt water flowed into and was trapped inside the Arctic and did not cause the other oceans to rise. The end of the great ice ages had rapid warming and rapid ocean rise, not because ice suddenly started thawing but because the thinning ice suddenly allowed the ice and fresh water trapped in to escape, in surges which disrupted the warming.
    Consensus kept the great ice sheets from thawing at all for a hundred thousand years and suddenly thawed them in ten thousand years with no explanation, other than they had some people who said so.

  5. This was written:
    However, because the summers are still too cold, there is not enough surface melting to form moulins in Antarctica. This led to the assumption that there was not a lot of water present at the foot of the Antarctic ice sheets.

    There is warmth from the earth and there is great pressure on the base of the ice and there is friction from motion of the flowing ice. The melt-water comes from deep under the ice. Ice cores show the upper layers thicker and the deeper layers thinner, the deeper layers are thinner because the ice as squeezed and thawed, that is where the melt-water is coming from that feeds the deep rivers.

    Every time they find something they never knew about, they pretend it is something that just started because we added one molecule of CO2 to ten thousand molecules of atmosphere, ie 300 to 400 PPM is adding ONE TO TEN THOUSAND!

  6. This was written:
    “The region where this study is based holds enough ice to raise the sea level globally by 4.3m. How much of this ice melts and how quickly it is linked to how slippery the base of the ice is. The newly discovered river system could strongly influence this process.”

    Ice cores show some of the ice at the base of Antarctic Ice is Hundreds of Thousands of years old, it has not “slipped away” it just flowed and thawed and thinned.

  7. The ice at the base of the ice sheets started on top, there is not significant loss from the top or old ice would not have made it way to the bottom.

  8. Every time the oceans get warmer and thaw polar oceans, the ice machines rebuild the ice on top.
    Every time the oceans get colder, allowing sea ice to form and stop polar evaporation, the sequestered flows and thaws and keeps the oceans cold enough to maintain the sea ice until the ice is depleted and the flow becomes not enough to maintain the sea ice, then it snows more again. Tropical energy is stored in oceans and transported to the polar regions where sea ice turns the ice machines off and on to maintain alternating colder and warmer dynamic cycles.
    Climate Theory does not have ice in it, but Nature Does!

  9. oldbrew says:

    Lead researcher Dr. Christine Dow from the University of Waterloo said, “That such a large system could be undiscovered until now is a testament to how much we still need to learn about the continent.”

    Indeed.
    – – –
    The river is believed to affect the flow and melting of ice, contributing to the acceleration of ice loss during climate warming.

    Belief derived from fly pasts?

    Scientists made this discovery through a combination of airborne radar surveys. The surveys allowed them to look beneath the ice and modeling of the ice sheet hydrology.

  10. Antarctic ice started growing millions of years ago, the oldest ice cores are less than even one million years. Rain and snowfall powers powerful rivers, all over the world and that has continued for millions of years, the rain powers rivers sooner and the ice thawing powers the rivers later, all the ice that takes part in these cycled is cycled in as snowfall and cycled out as glaciers, ice sheet edges, melt-water or icebergs that thaw or ice sheets that break away and thaw. Greenland and Antarctica and all land ice works this way, where there is much ice it is replenished by evaporated surface water and snowfall and and depleted by flowing and thawing and accomplishing cooling, sometimes thousands of years later. The layers close the top are thicker, deeper layers are first compacted and the crushed and thinned and thawed, of course there must be rivers under heavy massive ice sheets and glaciers.
    Oceans rose rapidly out of major ice ages, for ten thousand years temperature, and ice and ocean have been regulated in narrow bounds.
    Climate science only studies the flimsy, almost nothing greenhouse layer, a tiny fraction of the atmosphere, they do not study the much more massive oceans and ice on the earth ‘s crust.
    They are doing a static analysis and modeling of almost nothing and ignoring the real dynamic climate system.

  11. Co-author Dr. Neil Ross, from the University of Newcastle, said: “Previous studies have looked at the interaction between the edges of ice sheets and ocean water to determine what melting looks like. However, the discovery of a river that reaches hundreds of kilometers inland, driving some of these processes, shows that we cannot understand the ice melt fully without considering the whole system: ice sheet, ocean, and freshwater.”

    They keep finding something they did not know, then considering what this new thing will cause, they never consider this is not driving the Arctic Ice Cycles, this is just part of the Arctic Ice Cycles, this is a result of the Arctic Ice Cycles, they just discovered it, but it has been going on for millions of years with new snowfall starting on top and working its way down to cycle out as melt-water, thousands of years later.

  12. […] Scientists discovered a river longer than Thames beneath the Antarctic ice sheet | Tallbloke’s… […]

  13. Gamecock says:

    ‘The discovery of this 460km-long river shows the ice sheet’s base has more active water flow than previously thought, which could make it more susceptible to changes in climate.’

    “. . . has more . . . than previously thought . . . could make it more susceptible . . . .”

    What was previously thought is not concrete. Their discovery is new, not the river. They just learned of it. Apparently, their learning of it makes it more susceptible.

    Again, this is a report of a report of a report. The original study does NOT say ‘more susceptible to changes in climate.’ It’s stupid crap Ashwini Sakharkar of Tech invented and tacked onto the story.

  14. oldbrew says:

    Dramatic Cooling And Recent Ice Shelf Advance Over The Antarctic Peninsula
    By Kenneth Richard on 3. November 2022

    Antarctica’s Larsen Ice Shelf station indicates a massive cooling trend, -1.1°C per decade, has been ongoing since the late 1990s (Bozkurt et al., 2020).

    https://notrickszone.com/2022/11/03/dramatic-cooling-and-recent-ice-shelf-advance-in-the-antarctic-peninsula/

    Also cites other research papers. All unlikely to headline at COP27.

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