Story of Ötzi the Iceman gets multi-glaciation rewrite from researchers

Posted: November 9, 2022 by oldbrew in History, Natural Variation, paleo, research
Tags: ,

Ötztaler Alps, Austria [image credit: Kogo @ Wikipedia]

In this new version, the idea that the famous body was only found due to recent warming after being under ice continuously for over 5000 years gets buried, so to speak. The sting in the tail is this: ‘the researchers also found evidence suggesting that Ötzi had not died where he was found in the gully — instead, he had been transported down the mountain by natural environmental processes’. If, as they say, he ‘had melted out of the ice many times’, those times must have occurred at various higher levels, suggesting greater warming then than we (so far) see today. This poses an awkward question or two for prevalent climate theories.
– – –
A small team of researchers affiliated with institutions in Norway, Sweden and Austria, has found evidence that suggests a flaw in the original story of how Ötzi (the Iceman) remained preserved for so long, says

In their paper published in the journal The Holocene, the group details what they describe as a more plausible explanation.

In 1991, a couple of German hikers came upon the remains of a man frozen in the ice in the Ötztal Alps. Testing of the remains showed the man to be from approximately 5,300 years ago.

Researchers also found wounds that suggested the man had been killed. Konrad Spindler, an Austrian archaeologist, published a theory to explain how Ötzi’s remains had managed to survive for so long.

He suggested the body had freeze dried and was then encased in ice beneath a glacier (and was protected from its movement by a gully), where he was preserved in cold storage for thousands of years. His remains were found only because of warming caused by climate change melting the ice in which he had been frozen.

Such a sequence of events meant that Ötzi’s experience was unique, and thus it was doubtful that others like him would ever be found.

In this new effort, the researchers disagree with almost every part of Spindler’s theory. The only part they believe to be true is the cause of death. They suggest instead that food in Ötzi’s belly demonstrates that he died in the spring, not the fall.

Also, study of the landscape showed that the remains had not been covered by a glacier, which suggests Ötzi had melted out of the ice many times; thus, there was no time capsule. There was also evidence that Ötzi had been immersed in water several times.

And that, the researchers suggest, indicates that Ötzi’s weapons and tools had been damaged by the elements, not by a struggle with an unknown foe.

And finally, the researchers also found evidence suggesting that Ötzi had not died where he was found in the gully—instead, he had been transported down the mountain by natural environmental processes.

Full article here.
– – –
Study: Ötzi, 30 years on: A reappraisal of the depositional and post-depositional history of the find (2022)

  1. […] Story of Ötzi the Iceman gets multi-glaciation rewrite from researchers | Tallbloke’s Talksho… […]

  2. JB says:

    And then?

  3. oldbrew says:

    From the study:
    The radiocarbon dates clearly show that material was repeatedly added to the assemblage in the gully, also after Ötzi’s death (Figure 8). The simplest way to explain this is that the find spot was also repeatedly exposed, which is in line with archaeological evidence from other mountain pass sites (Hafner, 2015; Pilø et al., 2020).

    If Ötzi’s body and the associated artefacts were repeatedly exposed in the 1500 years following original deposition, why are they still remarkably well preserved? Recent results from glacial archaeology indicate that material from the ice need not break down as fast as previously believed (Pilø et al., 2021).

    Ötzi cannot be used as direct evidence for sudden climate cooling at the time of his death.
    – – –
    What climate conditions occurred during those 1500 years to expose the body? If modern warming is supposed to be unprecedented, why are we reading this:

    In the light of radiocarbon dates from the gully and new glaciological evidence regarding mass balance, it is likely that Ötzi was not permanently buried in ice immediately after his death, but that the gully where he lay was repeatedly exposed over the next 1500 years.

  4. Alan Beresford says:

    We in the UK are removing 360 gWh out of the wind every day and people are surprised by global warming?

  5. oldmanK says:

    There are important factors missing in the study. Those factors never feature in any research. What results are enigma and anomaly in conclusions.

    In the past 5000 years there have been two primary events that change climatic conditions at any site. They are abrupt events and linked to Eddy cycle roots (similar to DACP and LIA) One is that there definitely were two changes in earth’s obliquity. Two: geological/cataclysmic events that may also change the climatic condition of a site. The first is global in effect; the second is site specific. The latter is definite in the Mediterranean, and apparent in regions around the North countries.

    To cut short, see:

    Link in update don’t work. It is this:
    “New glacier evidence for ice‑free summits during the life of the Tyrolean Iceman”
    Pascal Bohleber1,2*, Margit Schwikowski3,4,5, Martin Stocker‑Waldhuber1, Ling Fang3,5 &
    Andrea Fischer1

    Also— 4.4 Radiocarbon dating of the Iceman Ötzi with accelerator mass spectrometry
    Walter Kutschera (particulatly fig3)

  6. Brian R Catt says:

    Why is this news? There are plenty of papers about the coming and going of Alpine ice r thtoughout the interglacial, possibly none 8Ka BP. We all know IPCC consensus science was always made up lies or ignorant assertion presented as fact w/o any real study or understanding that the well documented science showed had no meirt decades ago. We know a lot more now. Basic reserach of the literature is so much better than choosing which claims to believe.

    Joerin et all is a good one:

    Hormes et al:

    Words of wisdom, based on observations of reality. Or scientific method, as it used to be called before it was renamed science denial by the IPCC.

  7. oldbrew says:

    Swiss Glacier Was Ice Free 2000 Years Ago
    NOVEMBER 10, 2022
    By Paul Homewood

    He may not look like a revolutionary, but Ulrich Joerin, a wiry Swiss scientist in his late twenties, is part of a small group of climatologists who are in the process of radically changing the image of the Swiss mountain world. He and a colleague are standing in front of the Tschierva Glacier in Engadin, Switzerland at 2,200 meters (7,217 feet). “A few thousand years ago, there were no glaciers here at all,” he says. “Back then we would have been standing in the middle of a forest.”
    . . .
    the glaciers, according to the new hypothesis, have shrunk down to almost nothing at least ten times since the last ice age 10,000 years ago. “at the time of the roman empire, for example, the glacier tongue was about 300 meters higher than today,” says Joerin.
    . . .
    The scientists’ conclusion puts the vanishing glaciers of the past 150 years into an entirely new context: “Over of the past 10,000 years, fifty percent of the time, the glaciers were smaller than today,” Joerin states in an essay written together with his doctoral advisor Christian Schluechter. They call it the “Green Alps” theory.

    Read more:

    Let the climate catastrophists take that in.

  8. oldbrew says:

    Judith Curry writes:
    ‘The loss of glaciers from Glacier National Park is one of the most visible manifestations of climate change in the U.S. Signs were posted all around the park, proclaiming that the glaciers would be gone by 2020. In 2017, the Park started taking these signs down. What happened, beyond the obvious fact that the glaciers hadn’t disappeared by 2020?
    . . .
    So, the recent loss of glacier mass must be understood in light of the fact the glaciers reached their largest mass for the past 11,000 years during the 19th century.’
    . . .
    Nothing is simple when it comes to understanding the causes of climate change impacts. The key to understanding is to look at the longest data records available, and try to interpret the causes of the historical and paleo variability. Once you understand the natural variability, you aren’t so prone to attributing everything to fossil-fueled warming and making naïve predictions of the future. And once you understand weather variability and extremes, you won’t be so enthusiastic about renewable energy.

    I hope that this little exposition helps Reilly Neill and the real scientists of Montana understand the causes of the recent variations in Montana’s glaciers.’

  9. oldmanK says:

    Swiss Glacier Was Ice Free 2000 Years Ago

    “The fact that the Alpine glaciers are melting right now appears to be part of regular cycle in which snow and ice have been coming and going for thousands of years.”

    Coming and going for thousands of years; with a regularity of the Eddy cycle. Now, as in the RWP both Eddy peaks. However every cycle brought changes that were more permanent. The peak around 3550bce, desiccated the Sahara and that has not returned to a greener times. Around Otzi’s time ~3200bce an Eddy root – the Piora oscillation-, was a very destructive period, as was the next root, the 4k2 event.

    Other factor not being considered is the ‘fast freeze’ preservation, and the 5kyear of preservation. Same as appears in the Yukon fauna.

    But at the root of the confusion is human psychology and an innate fear of the forces of nature, personified as terrible gods; to be denied or appeased with blood.

  10. oldmanK says:

    Talking of glaciers, here is one strong tell-tale. It is recent enough, but the glacier in question has also a bearing on the 4k2 event. (4k2 represents the eventual social collapse on a wide scale, the abrupt event that brought it about is about 150 years earlier, at 2345bce, +/- a couple of years from tree-rings and other proxies)


  11. oldbrew says:

    Scientist Reveals Inconvenient Truth to Alarmists
    By Larry Bell, 17 June 2014

    Dr. Christian Schlüchter’s discovery of 4,000-year-old chunks of wood at the leading edge of a Swiss glacier was clearly not cheered by many members of the global warming doom-and-gloom science orthodoxy.

    This finding indicated that the Alps were pretty nearly glacier-free at that time, disproving accepted theories that they only began retreating after the end of the little ice age in the mid-19th century. As he concluded, the region had once been much warmer than today, with “a wild landscape and wide flowing river.”
    . . .
    Casting serious doubt upon alarmist U.N.-IPCC projections that the Alps will be nearly glacier-free by 2100, Schlüchter poses several challenging questions: “Why did the glaciers retreat in the middle of the 19th century, although the large CO2 increase in the atmosphere came later? Why did the Earth ‘tip’ in such a short time into a warming phase? Why did glaciers again advance in the 1880s, 1920s, and 1980s? . . . Sooner or later climate science will have to answer the question why the retreat of the glacier at the end of the Little Ice Age around 1850 was so rapid.”
    [bold added]

    This article featured here…

    Receding Swiss glaciers incoveniently reveal 4000 year old forests – and make it clear that glacier retreat is nothing new
    — 8 years ago
    – – –
    Why did the Earth ‘tip’ in such a short time into a warming phase?

    Answering a question with another one: why were all solar cycles from 1843-1913 longer than the mean (11.1 years) and all solar cycles from 1913-1996 bar one (11.5y) shorter than the mean?

  12. oldmanK says:

    Nice question: “Why did the Earth ‘tip’ in such a short time into a warming phase?”

    ” ‘tip’ in such a short time”! ; in year 173ce it happened in just 24 hours. But glaciers and sedimentary evidence cannot sample that fine.
    The findings of year 173ce were very critical, a once in many lifetimes opportunity, but they were bypassed in favour of Ptolemy’s (who has been proven to be a ‘science rogue’). As in modern politics, its not the quality of the juice that counts but the advertising on the package.

  13. oldmanK says:

    And more: Abrupt events as told from archaeology. This was being followed for other reasons, then the same precise dates and abrupt events show up.
    At 42:14 the dates and the climatic effect/change, plus the social upheaval/destruction.
    From another source, the destruction of Jericho was bang on the 4k2 event (at Eddy root, possibly around 2345bce).
    Both are a good definition of abrupt, better than ‘in such a short time’.

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