Valery Kotov: A Possible Relation Between Planetary Distances and the 160-Minute Solar Pulsation

Posted: April 23, 2012 by tallbloke in solar system dynamics

A POSSIBLE RELATION BETWEEN PLANETARY DISTANCES
AND THE 160-MINUTE SOLAR PULSATION

V. A. Kotov and S. Koutchmy*

Izvestiya Kryniskoi Astrofizicheskoi Observatorii,

Vol. 72, pp. 199–208, 1985

UDC 523.9–1/8;523.214:530.12

The discovery of global pulsations on the Sun with period Po = 160 min [10] enables us to consider a characteristic wavelength for the solar system L =cP0=19,24 a.u., where c is the velocity of light. The planetary distances show a statistically significant quasicommensurability between L and 2pai for the inner planets or between 2ai and L for the outer ones (ai is the major semiaxis of the orbit). This L commensurability leads to a new approach to the Titius-Bode planetary distance law. The physical mechanism responsible for this L commensurability in the solar system is evidently related to gravitational waves from an external source of unknown nature.

It is generally recognized that the distribution of the planets is not random and provides information on the formation mechanism and evolution of the solar system [1,2]. In many theories of the origin of the solar system, attempts are made to derive a planetary-distance law analogous to Bodes law, but none of these formulations can be taken as satisfactory. Alven and Arrhenius [3] criticized Bodes law but at the same time recognized that the solar system has regular structure and dynamics; they consider that resonant phenomena must play an important part in establishing the regularity, which is evidently also reflected in an exponential law of Bodes type, as well as the commensurability of many motions within the solar system.

Two average motions are taken as commensurable, or two orbital periods, if the ratio of them can be represented as the ratio of two quite small integers [1,2]. In the discussion of the reasons for commensurabi1ity, the main hypothesis has been that it is due to the direct gravitational interaction of the bodies during the evolution of the solar system or a result of tides arising on planets and satellites. Nieto [4] gives strong arguments for dividing the entire search for a physical basis for the law into two parts: on the one hand, one has to explain the geometrical progression in the planetary distances, and on the other,the commensurability. Nieto [4], Dermott [5], and Ovenden [6] concluded that the tidal theory has no basis in explaining the regularity in the planetary distances, since it requires time to establish commensurability much greater than the time for which the planetary system has existed. In [6] it is shown that Bodes law reflects the principle of minimal interaction and is simply a result of the gravitational attraction between the planets, so it provides no information on the formation conditions. In turn, Hills numerical calculations [7] imply that commensurability in the periods of rotation around the central body is the final and most important feature of a system of strongly interacting bodies, and a state with commensurability is the most stable state out of all the possible configurations for the orbits; therefore, Bodes law is a natural expression of the commensurability. However, Hills approach involves the following difficulty: relaxation in a system of gravitating bodies in general inevitably leads to unbounded increase in the orbital eccentricities, which is unrealistic.

According to Molchanov [8], the planetary-distance law follows from simple linear (resonant) relations between the frequencies of rotation of the planets. However, later [9] it was shown that the set of relationships (correlations) considered in [8] is statistically unreliable.

*Astrophysics Institute, Paris, France.

The partial solutions for resonance and commensurability are based on the fruitful idea of tidal interaction but do not give an exhaustive answer to the origin of quasicommensurability, traces of which can be found virtually throughout the solar system.

The discovery of the 160 min pulsations on the Sun [10,11] in our view provides a new and very attractive means of relating the structure of the planetary system to a detailed phenomenon actually observed: the periodic pulsation in the central body.
1. SOLAR PULSATIONS

In 1974, Severnyi et al. [10] observed periodic oscillations in the solar photosphere, which extended to virtually all the visible hemisphere of the Sun and had a period of about 160 min. This was very shortly afterwards confirmed by others [12-14]. Observations over nine years in the Crimea [15] refined the value of the period, which is

P0 = 160m,0101±0m,0007.            (1)

The nature of this oscillations is a difficult problem for the theory. It is possible to explain it as resonance between gravitational (nonradial) g modes and certain combinations of them of gi– gk type for a solar model [16] with low initial heavy-element content Z0 = 0.001 [15].
In [17,18], it has been suggested that the 160 min period on the Sun is a relict phenomenon, i.e., has existed for 108-109 yr, namely over a time-scale comparable with the time of substantial evolution in the solar system. In that case, it is quite reasonable to suppose that this period may play a considerable part in establishing the regularity and commensurability in our system. As regards the physical mechanism, one can evidently envisage periodic fluctuations in the gravitational field near the Sun accompanying the 160-min pulsations.
There have been many suggestions that one could observe gravitational perturbations (waves) from studies on the entire solar system or some parts of it acting as trial bodies, in particular from Weber [19], Braginskii [20], and Dicke [21].
Savin [22] suggested an important role for a 160 min period in the structure and evolution of the solar system long before the actual discovery [10] of the global pulsation on the Sun; in 1946 he said that the period of the natural vibrations of the Sun, so to say, the period of its infrasound (1/9 day), plays an important part in the distribution of the outer planets. It is true that now it is almost impossible to establish how he derived this conclusion on the period of the Sun of 1/9 day (160 min);it seems that it was an intuitive guess supported by analysis of the periods of rotation of the planets.

Another important point is the statistically significant commensurability in the mean periods of axial rotation of the planets and asteroids, period 160 min [18]. This forces one not only to see a physical mechanism for this preferred synchronization but also other possible signs of the fundamental periodicity P0within the solar system.
A discussion of the possible relationship between this 160 min period and the structure of the system as a whole leaves on one side the nature of P0 and the physical process that determined the commensurability (of the axial rotation speeds [18]) with P0. The treatment is basically statistical and involves the following three major postulates:
1) the period P0 = 160.010 min of the Sun is a relict phenomenon;
2) periodic perturbations in the gravitational field are, or have been, related to this period; and
3) these perturbations have a wavelength L determined by P0 and the propagation speed c, which is equal to the speed of light (L = cPo).

The theory of gravitation and gravitational radiation implies that the equations for weak gravitational fields are analogous to Maxwells wave equations for the electromagnetic field. Einstein postulated that gravitational waves propagate with the speed of light; since then, the speed of light c as a universal constant has formed the basis of the special theory of relativity and the theory of gravitation. Correspondingly, we introduce the wavelength

(2)

We further suppose that L is a certain characteristic scale that may be important in establishing the final dimensions of the system. It is then logical to compare L with the actual distances within the planetary system, which are comparable with L   as regards order of magnitude.
2. COMPARABILITY OF L  AND THE ORBIT DIMENSIONS
A circular orbit is the limiting case of an ellipse with eccentricity e tending to zero. Therefore, the motion of the planets around the central body in eccentric orbits can be represented as equivalent circular motions occurring in a certain preferred plane and perturbed by radial oscillations with period Tn, where Tn is the period of rotation of planet number n around the Sun. The perturbations that transform a circular orbit into an elliptical one are characterized by the length zn ~ 2pan(an is the major semiaxis of the orbit). On the basis of resonance, it is reasonable to assume that zn may be commensurable with L , as may be the radius an and the diameter of the orbit 2an.
We now enumerate all combinations of ratios of the type x1/x2 between these three orbit parameters (an, 2an, and zn) and L :

(3)

To establish whether x1 and x2 are comparable on average for the 10 objects in the solar system (the nine planets and the asteroid belt), we impose three conditions:

 

where N is the number of objects.

The summation may be taken directly for all 10 objects at once or separately for the five inner planets (including the asteroid belt) and the five outer ones. The division of the objects into two groups is quite natural by virtue of the marked difference in physical characteristics between the planets of the terrestrial group and the giant ones, as well as the differences in evolutionary history.

Condition (4) is obvious, since we are interested in x1/x2 being close to integers; (5) restricts the order of the commensurability, while (6) is an obvious requirement for the mean multiplicity (commensurability) between x1 and x2, where Zn are integers close to (Xl/X2)n. It is evident from (3) that L   does not show preferred quasicommensurability with any of the three orbital parameters (an,2an, and 2pan) for all objects taken simultaneously in accordance with (4)-(6); instead, there is quasicommensurability only between L   and 2pan for the five inner planets or between L   and 2an for five outer ones; the values of y are correspondingly 0.118 and 0.217.


The quasicommensurability is illustrated in more detail in Table 1, which gives not only the mean distances from the Sun (the an of [23]) for the 10 main objects but also the L /2pan for the inner planets and 2an/L  for the outer ones. All the values are close to small integers (less than 10): C(x1/x2)n– Zn C<1/4, apart from Jupiter, for which 2a6 /L  y1/2.

Instead of the major semiaxis an, we can consider the so-called equivalent radius of the orbit rn, which by definition is equal to the radius of a circle whose area is equal to that enclosed by the elliptical orbit:

rn = an (1-e2)1/4             (7)

The average commensurability of 2prn or 2rn with L is then substantially higher than that in Table 1, mainly on account of the orbital parameters of Mercury and Pluto, which are the two planets with the largest eccentricities (these correspondingly give L /2pr1 = 7,996, 2r10/L = 4,034).

3. COMMENSURABILITY SPECTRUM

The main difficulty in demonstrating any planetary distance law lies in determining the statistical significance of the approximation for the observed an. We have 10 values of an and can obtain almost any regularity with the probability practically equal to one. The values of L  /2pan and 2an/L  given in Table 1 readily give us the probability of obtaining this close correspondence to integers by accident:

           (8)

.

.

.

where   is the number of combinations of 10 elements taken seven at a time.

In all previous studies on the planetary distances, it has been usual to find the best approximation to 10 or less values of an with a parametric function containing two or more constants, whose form is not known a priori; this is dependent on several untestable and usually unreliable assumptions. An advantage of our argument is that this commensurability study is based on the advance assumption of a unique geometrical scale L , and it will be seen from what follows that this enables us to evaluate the reliability of the result more or less rigorously, namely the quasicommensurability of the orbital parameters with L .

Table 1 shows that 2an and 2apn tend to be commensurable with L , so we are justified in expecting a maximum commensurability at the frequency f0 = c/L = P0-1. One can calculate the commensurability function [18] in order to determine whether f0 in fact corresponds to the best commensurability (i.e., the turning point in a certain function) and to determine the level of statistical significance for the maximum.

We assume that the commensurability of the an with L   (Table 1) is accidental. Then one should assume that in a reasonably chosen range of wavelengths l(or frequencies f = c/l), there exists certain values l‘that show average quasicommensurability with the 10 values of an better than the L = 19,24 a.u. (frequency f0 = l04.l6 mHz).

We have introduced [18] the commensurability function F(f) for certain constants kn with the variable f , which shows for what values f ‘ there is preferred commensurability for the entire set of kn, i.e., scope for approximating kn/f  by integers more or less satisfactorily. The meaning of F(f) is entirely analogous to that of the power spectrum of a time-varying signal, so F(f) is naturally called the commensurability spectrum.

We construct the following two F(f) separately for the planets of the terrestrial group (n 1,…, 5) and the outer ones (n = 6,…, 10):


Here the Zn are integers closest to the x1/x2, while for Jupiter, to retain the generality, we take 2a6instead of a6(see below on the same on replacing the real an by random numbers); l = c / f , where f is the traveling frequency and b = (12)- 1/2 = 0,2887 [18].

Figure 1 shows F1calculated in the range of periods from about 10 to 460 min with a step DP = 2.5 min; there are two peaks with identical amplitudes A = 0.173 y 2.8s , which correspond to periods of about 159 min and about 305 min (±4 min, the error corresponding to the peak width at the 2s level). The value of s is determined here, as everywhere, by calculating F( f ) for uniformly distributed random numbers Rn replacing the actual an.

Figure 2 shows F2for the five outer planets; frequency step D f = 2 mHz. The largest peak with amplitude about 3.5s corresponds to a period of 163 min (±3 min), while the second peak for P y 82 min has an amplitude less than 3s and is an artefact of the quasicommensurability for P y 163 min (see also [18]).

The two figures show that there is a single period of about 160 min in the entire frequency range that gives a dominant and statistically significant quasicommensurability with the parameters 2pan(n = 1,…,5) and 2an(n = 6,…,10) simultaneously. As the amplitudes A of the peaks (about 160 min) in Figs. 1 and 2 are >2.3s and >3.2s, we get the probability of accidentally finding two peaks at the same frequency simultaneously as

                     (11)



Interest also attaches to the form of the average function F = (F1 + F2)/2, which is shown in Fig. 3. The calculations were made for periods from about 56 min to about 1440 min, and for P P 470 min, where F1is not defined, we took only F2, i.e., here we assumed F =  F2. The F(f) is then dominated by quasicommensurability for the period 160 min ( 3 min), peak amplitude about 4.3s and probability of accidental occurrence at that frequency about l0-5.

To illustrate the preferred commensurability with L    for  2prn and 2rn. where rn are the equivalent orbital radii, we calculated a function for all 10 planets:

(for Jupiter, we took 2r6 instead of r6). Figure 14 shows the spectrum, where the largest peak has amplitude A(160m)y4,3 .


4. PLANETARY – DISTANCE REGULARITY

The fullest survey of the topic is given by Nieto [4], who gives the history of Bodes law and subsequent modifications, as well as theories of the origin of the solar system. He shows convincingly that none of the proposed theories gives an exhaustive explanation of the geometrical progression in Bodes law, although many of them are more or less compatible with a progression. In [3]it is emphasized that none of the formulations of this law has any physical significance. Nevertheless, the distribution of the planets is one of the major features of the solar system, since for example there is a clear-cut linear relationship between the logarithm of the specific momentum in the planets and the logarithm of the distance from the Sun; there is also a close correlation between the mean densities of the planets and the gravitational potential energies GM@ / an, where M@ is the mass of the Sun and G is the gravitational constant [3].

The result of Figs. 3 and 4 emphasizes the importance and unique character of L  and thus of the period of 160 min for the planetary distribution in our system. From Table 1 we propose the following formula for the planetary distances:

(for the terrestrial-group planets at the top and for the outer planets at the bottom, beginning with Jupiter). The formula represents the actual an with a cross-correlation coefficient of 0.9998 and a relative standard deviation of 4%. It has an undoubted advantage over all other formulations of Bodes law, since there is no adjustable parameter, and it follows from the natural and statistically sound requirement of quasicommensurability with a characteristic scale known in advance.

5. DISCUSSION OF THE RESULTS

It has been shown that the 160 min pulsation on the Sun [10,11] is important not only to the distribution of the axial periods of rotation for the planets and asteroids [18] but also for the planetary distance sequence; the analysis is based on the requirement of quasicommensurability for the observed distances with the wavelength L  = c.P0. The gravitational field is the only physical field whose perturbations propagate with the speed of light and which in our view could lead to such commensurability within the evolution time of the planetary system (about l08-l09 yr).

The law of (13) differs favorably from other such laws; it contains the observed period of oscillation of the Sun P0and the fundamental velocity c. The formulation is based also on the hypothesis of average quasicommensurability, which gives us the numbers Zn automatically (see Table 1 and (13)) without making any other assumptions; the enumeration of the objects by the Zn is objective and based on the quasicommensurability itself, while in ordinary formulations of Bode’s law, the orbits are usually enumerated by the natural number series n = 1,2,…;insome formulations, however, deviations from this sequence of n are allowed, such as omitting certain numbers or even a reverse enumeration order.

If we express the an in terms of the mean orbital velocities vn and the frequencies of rotation around the Sun Fn = Tn-1, the conditions of (13) of the inner and outer planets become

where F0 = P0-1 is the frequency of the Suns oscillation, while n and Zn are the numbers given in Table 1.

We therefore have to seek a common cause for this commensurability, namely of P0with the periods of rotation of the various bodies in the solar system about their axes [18] and commensurability with L  = c.P0 for the orbital parameters, which we see in gravitational waves. It has previously been pointed out repeatedly [19-21] that gravitational waves could have an appreciable effect on the solar system if they are of sufficient amplitude.


Here we may note that the prediction from the general theory of relativity that gravitational waves may be radiated has received some confirmation in l974, when it was observed that the orbital period of the pulsar PSR 1913+16 was gradually decreasing, this being part of a binary system, and which occurred on account of loss of gravitational radiation [24].

The source of the possible gravitational waves might be the Sun itself (which we consider unlikely) or some external object near the solar system such as a massive binary system having a period of rotation 2 P0 y 320 min, angle of inclination of the plane of the orbit i K 0, and sufficiently close to the Sun (it was first suggested in [17,18] that there is a possible evolutionary relation between the 160 min oscillation of the Sun and perturbations of the gravitational field near it).

Many calculations have been performed [19-21,25,26] on the energy flux incident on the solar system from a binary one. Consider, for example, a binary system composed of two massive collapsed objects with masses m1and m2. If the system has a circular orbit with radius r and angular velocity of one component around the other w, the energy flux from gravitational waves near the Sun is [26]

where R is the distance from the binary system to the Sun. Taking m1~m2~M@, w = p/P0 ~ 3,3•104 sec-1 and R y 10 parsec, we get r ~(GM@ / w2 )1/3 ~ 1011 cm, and for I we get the very small value O2.4.l0-10 erg.cm-2.sec-1. If we assume that the components in the system are black holes (F. Delache, 1983, personal communication) with masses about l03 M@ each, then we get the dimensions of such a system as r y 1012 cm and I O2.4 erg.cm-2.sec-1, i.e., comparatively large. The energy losses by gravitational radiation are DE = 4pR2I ~ 3.1040 erg.sec-1, and the lifetime of the system is t O2.103 M@c2/DE~4.109 yr, which is comparable with the time of existence of the solar system. This problem requires a special discussion, which should cover the possibility of such a massive binary system existing at all near the Sun, its real lifetime (<t) and the identification with some peculiar object.
If there is an external gravitational-radiation source, the observed oscillation with P0 = 160.010 min is to be considered as a forced oscillation, which is the more interesting because the region of periods around 160 min is according to Severnyi et al. [15] the most preferable for the Sun for resonant interaction and excitation of certain gravitational g modes. Resonant energy transfer from one mode to another may occur in the presence of a weak but permanently acting external perturbation at frequency P0-1, which would lead to appreciable amplification in this oscillation by comparison with all other g modes.
The authors are indebted to A.B. Severnyi for some critical comments, which led to substantial improvements in the paper, and we are also indebted to A. Wittman (Gottingen) for a discussion of the statistical significance of the commensurability found in the solar system, to A. G. Kosovichev for valuable comments, and to F. Delache (Nice), who provided some of his results before publication.

REFERENCES
1. A. E. Roy and M. W. Ovenden, 0n the occurrence of commensurable mean motions in the solar system,” Mon. Not. Roy. Astron. Soc., vol. 114, pp. 232-241, 1954.

2. P. Goldreich, “An explanation of the frequent occurrence of commensurable mean motions in the solar system,! Mon. Not. Roy. Astron. Soc., vol. 130, pp. 159-181, 1965.

3. H. Alven and G. Arrhenius, Evolution of the Solar System [Russian translation],G. I. Petrov (Editor), Mir, Moscow, 1979.

4. M. M. Nieto, The Titius-Sode Law [Russian translation] Yu. A. Ryabov (translator), Mir, Moscow, 1976.

5. 5. .F. Dermott, “On the origin of commensurabilities in the solar system. Part 1. The tidal hypothesis,” Mon. Not. Roy. Astron. Soc., vol. 141, pp. 349-361, 1968.

6. M. W. Ovenden, “Bodes law – truth or consequence?” Vistas in Astron., vol. 18, pp. 473-496, 1975.

7. J. G. Hills, “Dynamic relaxation of planetary systems and Bodes law,” Nature, vol. 225, pp. 840-842, 1970.

8. A. M. Molchanov, “The resonant structure of the solar system. The law of planetary distances,” Icarus, vol. 8, pp. 203-215, 1968.

9. S. F. Dermott, “On the origin of cornmensurabilities in the solar system. Part 3. The resonant structure of the solar system,” Mon. Not. Roy. Astron. Soc., vol. 142, pp. 143-l49, 1969.

10. A. B. Severnyi, V. A. Kotov, and T. T. Tsap, “Observations of solar pulsations,” Nature, vol. 259, pp. 87-89, 1976.

11. V. A. Kotov, A. B. Severnyi, and T. T. Tsap, “A study of the global oscillations of the Sun. Part 2. Observations in 1974-1980, with an analysis and some conclusions,” Izv. Krym. Astrofiz. Obs.*, vol. 66, pp. 3-71, 1983.

12. J. H. Brookes, 0. R. Isaak, and H. B. van der Raay, “Observation of free oscillations of the Sun,” Nature, vol. 259, pp. 92-95, 1976.

13. G. Grec, E. Fossat, and M. Pomerantz, “Solar oscillations: full disk observations from the geographic south pole,” Nature, vol. 288, pp. 541-544, 1980.

14. P. H. Scherrer and J. M. Wilcox, “Structure of the solar oscillations with period near 160 minutes,” Solar Phys., vol. 82, pp. 37-42, 1983.

15. A. B. Severnyi, V. A. Kotov, and T. T. Tsap, “Oscillations of the Sun with a period of 160 minutes and other long–period oscillations: analysis of the power spectrum from nine years of observations and interpretation,” Izv. Krym. Astrofiz. Obs.*, vol. 71,pp. 3-19, 1985.

16. J. Christensen-Dalsgaard, D. 0. Dough, and J. U. Morgan, “Dirty solar models,” Astron. and Astrophys., vol. 73, pp. 121-128, 1979.

17. A. G. Kosovichev and A. B. Severnyi, “Excitation of stellar pulsations on mutual approach,” Izv. Krym. Astrofiz. Obs.*, vol. 70, 1984.

18. V. A. Kotov and S. Koutchmy, “The period of 160 minutes in the solar system:solar pulsations and the rotation of the planets and asteroids,” Izv. Krym. Astrofiz. Obs.*, vol. 70, 1984.

19. J. Weber, The General Theory of Relativity and Gravitational Waves [Russian translation], D. M. Ivanenko (Editor), Izd. In. Lit., 1962.

20. V. B. Braginskii, “Gravitational radiation and the scope for observing it,” Dsp. Fiz. Nauk, vol. 86, pp. 433-446, 1965.

21. R. Dicke, “The effects of time-varying gravitational interaction of the solar system,” in: Gravitation and Relativity [Russian translation], Mir, Moscow, pp. 251-294, 1965.

22. E. Sevin, “Sur la structure du systeme solaire,” C. r. Acad. Sci. P., vol. 222, pp. 220-221, 1946.

23. C. W. Allen, Astrophysical Quantities [Russian translation], D. Ya. Martynov (Editor), Mir, Moscow, 1977.

24. J. Weisberg, J. Taylor, and L. Fowler, “Gravitational waves frort a pulsar in a binary system,” Usp. Fiz. Nauk vol. 137, pp. 707-723, 1982.

25. Ya. B. Zeldovich and I. D. Novikov, Relativistic Astrophysics [in Russian], Nauka, Moscow, 1967.

26. E. Amaldi and G. Pizzella, “The search for gravitational waves,” in: Astrophysics, Quanta, and the Theory of Relativity [Russian translation], Mir, Moscow, pp. 241-396, 1982.
11 November 1983

*Bulletin of the Crimean Astrophysical Observatory (USSR Academy of Sciences).


Comments
  1. tallbloke says:

    I’m struggling with eq7. Can anyone help?

  2. tallbloke says:

    UPDATE: OK, you can all stop rushing to my assistance, I’ve got it sorted. 🙂

  3. wayne says:

    “Can anyone help?”

    Not much yet. Equation 7, with a(1-e^2) being the semi-latus rectum, call it z, equation 7 seems to be r=(1/4)z, the 2π being inferred by cancel on both sides in that this is speaking of wavelengths of resonance the z being one branch, or 1/2, of a complete cycle or Hertz. TB, I too am trying to see exactly how their logic flows in this paper.

  4. tallbloke says:

    Wayne thanks. You need to raise the value of the SLR (1-eccentricity-squared) to the power of 1/4 before you multiply the result by the semimajor axis value. Then when you plug that r(merc) into the following eq: L/2pi*r(merc) you get the 7.996 Kotov got. Don’t forget to multiply L by Earth’s Semimajor axis though.

  5. wayne says:

    So you got it all sorted, huh? How about clueing me in! 😉

    I see the ratios, apx. 8, 4, 3, 2, 1, .5, etc but doesn’t this have a bit of tinge on the subject of whether differences, ∆g, in a gravitational field travel at ‘c’ or not (some say near c^2 or even infinite)? I have a problem with higher frequency harmonics (160 min in this case) occuring and reinforcing when all changes occuring in real time orbits are so incredibly tiny and slow. I do see why some have a problem accepting this. Or, do you have a different viewpoint?

  6. tallbloke says:

    Wayne: 🙂
    Well, I got eq7 sorted. As regards the gravitation and how the wave affects that, well, pull up a chair and bust the top off your favourite bottle.

    Think about this from the outside in. Kotov has also discovered lots of other things which relate to this periodicity of 160 mins, to do with spin rates as well as orbits, and not just in solar system planets, but also stars, galaxies and odd stuff like quasars. So if it’s some sort of universal frequency, it might not be a gravitational wave at all. No one ever isolated one of those. beware the difference between a gravitational wave and a gravity wave. Different beasts, one of them a Unicorn. Unicorns travel at up to 1010C dontcha know. That’s why you don’t see them. 😎

    So we don’t know, which is probably why NASA doesn’t want to know, because having unexplained stuff on the books makes them look bad, or so they think.

    Or maybe Kotov was trying too hard, and let an accumulation of preferred observations cloud his better judgement. That’s what we’re going to try to find out.

    So let’s suspend judgement for now, work through his stuff, and then consider the meaning. Kotov himself says it’s possible the 160 minute trace he finds in many things could be a relic anyway, so let’s not worry too much. It’s of interest and value to consider the inter-relationships between the values and geometries anyway.

  7. wayne says:

    “Think about this from the outside in. Kotov has also discovered lots of other things which relate to this periodicity of 160 mins, to do with spin rates as well as orbits, and not just in solar system planets, but also stars, galaxies and odd stuff like quasars.”

    Ok, seems I’m thinking on the wrong level. Thanks. I’ll view it now with a more general principle as applied in the article to our solar system and not strictly a principle of our solar system. Never have delved into his work.

    I do think the periods of the planets are in synchronous orbits to some degree implying Bode’s law. Just because the far planets, mainly Neptune, fall off the curve could just be due to the fact enough billions of years have not passed for those orbits to be nudged into agreement but I have no given much time on the subject but have touched on it a few years ago.

    I spent a good bit of time this weekend going back into some very old code, twelve different integrators, seven which I now know hold excellent relative energy conservation and state vector positions even after integrating ten thousand orbits and maybe now I can tell if Neptune’s orbit is heading in that direction (Bode synchronization) or the opposite. Don’t remember reading any papers on that matter.

  8. Ray Tomes says:

    IMO, the universe is pervaded by a number of wave structures with centres or nodes at various astronomical objects. The Sun has 160 m and 6 m waves centred on it which also manifest as 80 m and 3 m spacings (internodal distances) explaining the spacing of the outer and inner planets. Is it coincidence that the Sun has oscillations of 160 m and ~ 6 minutes (called the 5 m oscillations and the strong modes ranging from about 3 m to 11 m)? I think not. An analysis of planetary distances from the Sun yields commensuration distances (using Kotov’s method) consistent with this. See http://ray.tomes.biz/160min.html

    There are other all pervading waves also that can be demonstrated to have matching wavelengths and periodicities. These include 596 million (light) years for galaxy clusters and geological cycles and 4.44 (light) years and others for stellar spacings and common cycles on earth.

  9. tallbloke says:

    Wayne: Bode’s law as it currently stands is a useless heuristic. Kotov’s reworking takes us towards physical understanding IMO. Your orbital code sounds good, tell us more.

    Ray: Thanks, your pioneering work in collating and inter-relating cosmic cyclicities is destined to be a part of the history of science. The shortsightedness of the science establishment in restricting itself to a clapped out cosmology and its inadequate ontology is crippling the minds of students and professionals alike.

  10. Tenuc says:

    p.g.sharrow says:
    April 24, 2012 at 3:57 am
    (On this post…)

    Book Review: The Doomsday Machine by Martin Cohen and Andrew McKillop

    “…As to your 160 min.pulse beat, I would say that it is a signal impressed on the Aether and appears in all EMF that we detect. Most likely the heart beat of GOD or the central black hole. pg

    How strange, when I first read this thread, my initial thought were similar to yours PG, but almost 360degrees apart…

    My idle though was that the 160 minute beat is a clock signal made of alternating waves of photons with positive and negative spins being discharged from around the equator of a super-massive photon charge recycling object in the centre of our galaxy – positive from the top hemisphere, negative from the bottom.

    This provides a direct source of energy for all matter, down to the electron, which also recycle and are energised by the photon charge field. The orbits/spins/axial tilts of the planets are entrained to the solar charge field (and that of Jupiter), which are in turn entrained by the galactic centre charge reversal pulses.

    Here, perhaps, are a couple of murky glimpses of this impressive central photon charge recycling object…

    My thanks for Miles Mathis for providing a simple framework for endless personal speculation about how the universe could work – no black hole or dark matter needed… 😉

  11. […] Valery Kotov: A Possible Relation Between Planetary Distances and the 160-Minute Solar Pulsatio… […]

  12. I see that others already found the ~19.2AU measure – but nobody flagged up how close that measure is to Uranus’ semi-major axis. It’s the closeness that interests me.

    [Reply] Have a look at the next thread on the interplanetary distances. 😉

    Valery Kotov: A Possible Relation Between Planetary Distances and the 160-Minute Solar Pulsation

  13. oh silly me, it seems that this is what the whole paper is about, now I actually read it. Sorry, I veered to the comments when I lost the thread in the paper. Please, what is the little “p” as in L = 2pai?

    [Reply] Pi 🙂 And, well done for working it out.

  14. tallbloke says:

    One beautiful confirmation of Sevin and Kotov’s theory came with the discovery of Eris in 2005, a planet(oid) bigger than Pluto, ‘way out there’. It has a known moon too.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eris_(dwarf_planet)

    As of 2011, its distance from the Sun is 96.6 AU

    96.6/19.24=5.02 – It fits Kotov’s scheme.

    When Kotov wrote his paper ‘There are ten planets not eight’ the orbital distance was thought to be less and didn’t fit so well. Kotov must be delighted with the latest orbital estimate.

  15. ferd berple says:

    Planetary resonance has long been rejected on the notion that the planets themselves are randomly distributed in their orbits. What has been largely ignored in this argument is that the orbital distances themselves are determined by resonance, while the position of the planets in their orbits is not. The evidence for this is the near integer relationship between the orbital periods of the planets, which cannot be accounted for by chance. What is more amazing is the number of learned scientists that dismiss resonance while ignoring the fact that without resonance the solar system would be unstable.

  16. tallbloke says:

    Hi Ferd:”the orbital distances themselves are determined by resonance, while the position of the planets in their orbits is not.”

    If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the positions of the conjunctions between planet pairs relative to those of other planet pairs is not determined by resonance. This may be so, but there are other forces bringing about the regularities and cyclic changes in the system.

    I think the key to this is the eccentricities of orbits and the mutual perturbation of planetary masses through gravity and electro-magnetic dynamics. The changing degrees of eccentricity and their precessions is what ‘fine tunes’ the coherence of the system. Some eccentricity precessions, such as that of Mercury, are continuous in one direction, others change from positive to neggative as angular momentum exchanges change orbital rates and thus perturbation relationships.

    The stability of the system relies on these checks and balances.

  17. The stability of the system relies on these checks and balances.

    nitpick: It appears as if the stability of the system relies on these checks and balances.

    I think it’s important to train oneself (I’m guilty too, here, sometimes) to use scientific attitude and language about these things at all times… Otherwise U-No-Hoo 🙂

  18. tallbloke says:

    Fair call. 🙂

  19. tallbloke says:

    Correction to my comment about Eris the tenth planet. The planet appears to be near aphelion at it’s current distance from the Sun. Here are the stats from the wiki page:

    Aphelion 97.56 AU
    Perihelion 37.77 AU
    Semi-major axis 67.67 AU
    Eccentricity 0.441 77
    Orbital period 203,600 days or 557 years

    These figures are themselves of interest.

    97.56/19.24=5.07
    37.77/19.24=1.96
    67.67/19.24=3.52

    3.5 would put it right on a zero crossing node of the Kotov wave, and the extrema are very close too.

    It seems Emile Sevin hypothesised the existence of a ‘transpluto planet’
    sideral period 685,65 julian years
    semi-major axis 77.755 au

    i.e 4 times Kotov’s wavelength of 19.24au.

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